Sickening

[2minkey]

that's cool but you're missing the point.

if the kids are fucked up, it doesn't really matter if there's no razor blades hidden in the sandbox.

 

[spike]

Oh, I fully expect this to continue. CPS will be losing a fortune from their current and future budgets over this case. If they are not allowed to keep the kids the current budget takes a major hit which may require emergency funding. If they are allowed to keep the kids, they are in gravy for the foreseeable future.

That is a total load of shit. Future budgets? Seems you're just making up crap.

The childcare alone has cost them a ton of money. You have absolutely nothing to indicate this was done affect a budget.

I guess your just one of those "rush to judgement types" that should be ashamed himself.

Actually you rushed to judgement from the start.

 

[spike]

Sara Hammon, you grew up in a community. Where did you grow up what city?

SARA HAMMON, RAISED IN AND LEFT FLDS COMMUNITY: I was born in Hilldale, Utah and raised in Colorado City, Arizona. KING: What was it like?

HAMMON: It was very secluded as the other gentleman was saying. We rarely left the community except to go shopping at the grocery store in St. George, Utah or Hurricane. And we were forced to dress a certain way. And people in the community outside St. George would stare at us like zoo animals. We really stood out and so it was almost safer to stay in Colorado City.

KING: Your late father was a devout member of the church?

HAMMON: Yes, he was one of the leaders.

KING: And he was also while talking about purity and propriety secretly a child molester?

HAMMON: Yes, he was.

KING: How did you know?

HAMMON: He molested me. He molested me.

KING: He molested his daughter?

HAMMON: Yes.

KING: How old were you?

HAMMON: The first time I was very small, under five. We had a bathroom that joined our bedrooms, my mother's bedroom and his bedroom. And I know we moved out of that bedroom when I was five, so it was prior to that. And then he also molested me on his death bed when I was 13, tried to -- he tried to put his hand up my skirt. He couldn't talk. He could barely move but he was trying to open my skirt.

KING: Did he have many wives?

HAMMON: He had 19 wives and 75 children.

KING: How did you get out of that?

HAMMON: My sister and her husband were living in St. George, Utah and when I was not in school on the weekends or in the summer I would go stay with her. And I began babysitting for a family that she knew. And one day I asked them if I could live with them. And they had to go meet with my mothers and arrange for that. My father had passed away. He died when I was 13.

KING: Ruth, where did you grow up?

RUTH STUFFS, WED AT 16 BY JEFFS TO 32-YEAR-OLD MAN: I grew up in Colorado City.

KING: As well, the same, in this whole environment area.

JEFFS: Yes.

KING: And he -- Warren Jeffs forced you to marry someone?

STUBBS: He -- he told me to marry him and...

KING: To marry the police officer.

STUBBS: Rodney Holm, yes.

KING: Right.

STUBBS: And the rest of the town put pressure on me to marry him.

KING: And you were how old?

STUBBS: I was 16.

KING: And why him? Why did they want you to marry him?

STUBBS: I have no idea. He gave me some tickets before I went in and asked to marry another man and they said, "Well, you can take care of her now."

KING: He gave you tickets?

STUBBS: Rod gave me some tickets before I married him.

KING: You mean traffic tickets?

STUBBS: No, more like minor consumption tickets.

KING: Oh. What did you think of Warren Jeffs?

STUBBS: I didn't know what to think. After I got into the religion after I married Rod then I believed he was a prophet.

KING: You did?

STUBBS: For a small time there I did believe he was a prophet.

KING: You may be -- you have to testify against him. If he asked you to marry this person and you married him what was -- what was criminal about that?

STUBBS: He told me that I belong to this man and if I wanted to do God's will then I needed to marry him. And so, I figured it's a test, OK. I'll, you know, if you want to be exalted to God then you need to marry this man. So, I told him, "OK, I'll do it." I tried to get a hold of the other man I was trying to marry.

KING: Who you loved?

STUBBS: Who I loved and I couldn't get a hold of him and so I told him "No, I can't do it."

KING: How long were you married to the police officer?

STUBBS: Three years.

KING: And how many children?

STUBBS: Three.

KING: All are his?

STUBBS: Yes.

KING: Does he see them?

STUBBS: Right now he doesn't see them very often at all. He sees them probably once every two months. Lately he's been...

KING: Is he still a police officer?

STUBBS: No, he's not.

KING: What does he do now?

STUBBS: He works for the Arizona Department. He cleans up the sides of the roads, drives a truck.

KING: Is he still with FLDS?

STUBBS: Yes, he is.

KING: You are not?

STUBBS: No.

KING: Once you -- was it hard to break away?

STUBBS: It was very hard for me. I didn't know if I was going to hell. I didn't know if my kids were going to die. His sister actually told me my kids were going to be dead a short time after I left him because I left him and that wasn't Uncle Warren's will.

KING: We'll be back with more. Fascinating hour ahead, don't go away.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0609/03/lkl.01.html

 

[Inkara1]

As soon as I saw the news story, I immediately felt sorry for the pair of shorts I knew jimpeel would immediately cream when he saw a big story that he felt would vindicate him, and then he'd come here to brag about it.

 

[2minkey]

in re: what spike quoted.

yes, quite amazing. those conspiratorial CPS workers. there's evil agents aboud everywhere. there's a kiddie-chasing homo around every corner, and judgemental, constitutional right-hating jackasses in every cranny. except in the FLDS compound. in there thar's only the innocent man, trying to follow his god-sanctioned beliefs. we've all been so wrong. we should hang our heads in shame.

 

[Gonz]

if the kids are fucked up, it doesn't really matter if there's no razor blades hidden in the sandbox.

Which takes us back to the beginning. What definition of fucked up are we using? The fact that these kids don't participate in "standard American pasttimes" makes them fucked up. Or does it?

in re: what spike quoted.

yes, quite amazing. those conspiratorial CPS workers. there's evil agents aboud everywhere. there's a kiddie-chasing homo around every corner, and judgemental, constitutional right-hating jackasses in every cranny. except in the FLDS compound. in there thar's only the innocent man, trying to follow his god-sanctioned beliefs. we've all been so wrong. we should hang our heads in shame.

Then arrest someone. It seems ther is not enough evidence to charge anyone with a crime. WHat's it been, a month? Two?

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

It takes longer than two months to build sufficient court accepted evidence on a forged check, Gonz. Welcome to the 21st century. Have you read about the nightmare overflow in the courts just for custody on these kids? Why would it be any different on evidence gathering? Besides, the DAs only get one shot at this (ala OJ Simpson) and they don't wanna screw it up by getting too hasty. Irf they did that, they'd get crucified in the public.

Give it time. Self-righteous asshats (copyright 2006, 2minkey inc, all rights reserved) will stand on their faith and (lack of ) morals and hang themselves every time. Smugness always screws a defendant. Doncha ever watch Law & Order?

 

[chcr]

I was just watching some of them on Larry King and they certainly are self-righteous asshats (copyright 2006, 2minkey inc, all rights reserved). Smug and slimy. Unfortunately , in the real world this probably means that nothing will ever come of it.

 

[2minkey]

Which takes us back to the beginning. What definition of fucked up are we using? The fact that these kids don't participate in "standard American pasttimes" makes them fucked up. Or does it?

ah, yeah, and apparently we're right back to a relativist stance on things. you sound just like a commie humanities professor in 1973, dude.

it's okay that arabs mutilate the genitals of their girlies as a ritual of dominance. it's their fucking culture! that's what they do! weeeeeee! everybody clap while yasmeen gets her clit lopped off and we jam some glass up her! sex will always hurt, but she's not supposed to enjoy it. she's here to get fucked and drop out more little achmads and dinas. and that's super.



how about this definition of fucked up: keeping 13 year-old kids as captive brood sows.

 

[jimpeel]

That is a total load of shit. Future budgets? Seems you're just making up crap.

CPS' budget depends on the number of kids seized in any particular year. This mess has cost the state a fortune -- and you can bet that this year's entire CPS budget is already wiped out -- and now it looks like they are going to be dipped in shit as well.

The childcare alone has cost them a ton of money. You have absolutely nothing to indicate this was done affect a budget.

BINGO! They have spent a fortune and now it turns out they never had the LAWFUL AUTHORITY to seize the kids in the first place. You lost! I said this is what would happen. Gonz said that this is what would happen. Now it has happened. You lost, but the part that most galls you is that you lost to ... ME!

I guess your just one of those "rush to judgement types" that should be ashamed himself.

Yep. I rushed to the judgement that they are innocent until proven guilty before a court of law. You wanted to hang 'em high right out of the chocks.

Actually you rushed to judgement from the start.

Guilty as charged! I judged them innocent until proven guilty by a preponderance of the evidence presented in a court of law before a jury of their peers and that those jurors, after weighing the entire body of evidence, would be satisfied beyond any reasonable doubt of their guilt. To do anything else, as you did, would have been antithetical to the system of American jurisprudence.

 

[jimpeel]

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0609/03/lkl.01.html

Unless, of course, she is lying; but we all know that no one ever lies about such things.

 

[jimpeel]

As soon as I saw the news story, I immediately felt sorry for the pair of shorts I knew jimpeel would immediately cream when he saw a big story that he felt would vindicate him, and then he'd come here to brag about it.

Good to know you fantasize about me.

 

[jimpeel]

in re: what spike quoted.

yes, quite amazing. those conspiratorial CPS workers. there's evil agents aboud everywhere. there's a kiddie-chasing homo around every corner, and judgemental, constitutional right-hating jackasses in every cranny. except in the FLDS compound. in there thar's only the innocent man, trying to follow his god-sanctioned beliefs. we've all been so wrong. we should hang our heads in shame.

Repeat: Unless, of course, she is lying; but we all know that no one ever lies about such things.

 

[Gonz]

it's okay that arabs mutilate the genitals of their girlies as a ritual of dominance. it's their fucking culture! that's what they do! weeeeeee! everybody clap while yasmeen gets her clit lopped off and we jam some glass up her!

Yep. I thinks it is completrely nuts but I don't live there nor practice that barbarism.

The relativism is that I don't practice their religion. I have no clue what the perverts are doing. If laws are being broken, charge them. If not, let them live their sick twisted litle pathetic lives without harassment from us.

Yes, SnP, it does take more than a month to gather evidence. However, if you don't have the evidence, you don't treat them as guilty & steal their children away to places probably as fucked up than home. Oh, no I've never seen an episode of any of those shows.

 

[spike]

CPS' budget depends on the number of kids seized in any particular year. This mess has cost the state a fortune -- and you can bet that this year's entire CPS budget is already wiped out -- and now it looks like they are going to be dipped in shit as well.

Wow, if you could just back up your claims it would be cool.

You lost! I said this is what would happen. Gonz said that this is what would happen. Now it has happened. You lost, but the part that most galls you is that you lost to ... ME!

Really? What did I lose exactly?

Yep. I rushed to the judgement that they are innocent until proven guilty before a court of law.

I was referring to your rush to judgement of the CPS which you have found guilty without any evidence.

You wanted to hang 'em high right out of the chocks.

Where did that happen?

Guilty as charged! I judged them innocent until proven guilty

I was referring to your rush to judgement of the CPS. Yes you are guilty?

To do anything else, as you did

Where did that happen? I'm still waiting to see what happens since the case isn't over. You've been doing nothing but ignoring all evidence.

 

[spike]

Unless, of course, she is lying; but we all know that no one ever lies about such things.

Right, if there are any pedophiles we could certainly expect them to tell the truth about such things right? Blame the victim first kinda thing.

 

[jimpeel]

Wow, if you could just back up your claims it would be cool.

More children = more budgetary requirements. Do the math.

Really? What did I lose exactly?

The debate. You were wrong.

I was referring to your rush to judgement of the CPS which you have found guilty without any evidence.

Nice try. You know what I meant and your lame attempt at changing the meaning is pathetic; but let's just let you go there, shall we?

Suppose that is what you meant. Well, the court has ruled that I was correct. CPS did not have the lawful authority to remove those children. CPS violated the law. I was correct, you were not.

Where did that happen?

You were one of the ones here who decided these people were guilty even though no one has been charged with a crime or even arrested. Gonz and I defended the Constitution and the law. We were correct, you were not.

I was referring to your rush to judgement of the CPS. Yes you are guilty?

Again: Nice try.

Where did that happen? I'm still waiting to see what happens since the case isn't over. You've been doing nothing but ignoring all evidence.

That's my point. YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE! The court ruled that CPS HAD NO EVIDENCE! If they had as much evidence as your overactive imagination supposes there is; don't you think they would have presented what they had before the court? They didn't because they don't have the evidence. They didn't because they have no one to charge.

 

[jimpeel]

Right, if there are any pedophiles we could certainly expect them to tell the truth about such things right? Blame the victim first kinda thing.

I'm not blaming anyone. There are numerous cases on record wherein the "victim" has recanted -- sometimes under oath during testimony -- and stated that they lied because of some petty offense of the accused? "He gave me a bad grade", etc.

 

[2minkey]

I was just watching some of them on Larry King and they certainly are self-righteous asshats.

yeah, i seem to have caught some of that too.

wow, those FLDS chicks are HOT! i need to dump my girlie and get on some of that shit. now i truly understand why they participate in polygamy with dull, terrifyingly unattractive men. they're the chicks that are so plain they couldn't get fucked in a bar full of sailors that had been at sea for 67 months.

larry totally pussed out. didn't really probe for shit on the teenie pregnancies. kinda sad. i knew there was a reason i never watched larry king.

 

[spike]

More children = more budgetary requirements. Do the math.

No, how about you back up your accusations.

The debate. You were wrong.

What was I wrong about?

Nice try. You know what I meant and your lame attempt at changing the meaning is pathetic

No Jim, I was clearly referring to your judgement of the CPS when you quoted that. You changed the subject.

Suppose that is what you meant.

Yes let's suppose I said the following: "You have absolutely nothing to indicate this was done affect a budget. I guess your just one of those "rush to judgement types"

Well, the court has ruled that I was correct. CPS did not have the lawful authority to remove those children. CPS violated the law. I was correct, you were not.

Your rush to judgement was that the CPS had ulterior motives relating to budgets. You have not backed up that claim one bit.

You were one of the ones here who decided these people were guilty even though no one has been charged with a crime or even arrested.

Where did I do that?

We were correct, you were not.

What was I incorrect about Jim?

That's my point. YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE! The court ruled that CPS HAD NO EVIDENCE!

They did not rule that there is no evidence, just that the entire compound should not have been treated as a household. Pay attention Jim.

If they had as much evidence as your overactive imagination supposes there is; don't you think they would have presented what they had before the court?

They still are. What is it exactly you think I imagined?

You have just been ignoring the evidence from the start. You're even "rushing to judgement" to discount the countless stories from former members as lies.