The Anti-Socialist Promise

[spike]

Cool, we'll just use the term nationalized when we talk about healthcare for now on too.

 

[randomJACKASS]

I do know. Our post office, roads, national parks, military, etc are all socialized. Our healthcare should be too.

so·cial·ize (ssh-lz)
v. so·cial·ized, so·cial·iz·ing, so·cial·iz·es
v.tr.
1. To place under government or group ownership or control.
2. To make fit for companionship with others; make sociable.
3. To convert or adapt to the needs of society.

Seems you don't really understand what it means.

You forget that hardcore cons only care about themselves and figuring out how to fuck you out of yours to have more for themselves.

 

[Gonz]

Cool, we'll just use the term nationalized when we talk about healthcare for now on too.

OK. Either way it's wrong & not constitutional

and figuring out how to fuck you out of yours to have more for themselves.

That might just be the dumbest thing you've ever said..

[edit]on 2nd thought, no, but it is stupid

 

[spike]

OK. Either way it's wrong & not constitutional

Actually it makes a ton of sense to fix a huge problem our citizens are having and catch up to other countries in the healthcare arena. That would be right.

As for Constitutional that you've played out that argument. You showed time and time again that you did not care about the Constitution under Bush. It's hypocritical for you to keep throwing it out there when you think it's convenient for your argument.

Also you somehow stretched the ability to declare war into permission to declare war on anyone and anytime for any reason. To invade countries who aren't threatening us, to have bases all over the world in countries we aren't fighting, nation building, spreading democracy, bringing countries "out of the 2nd century". Damn, that's clearly not what the founders intended.

We're going to say the right to life and the general welfare clearly allow healthcare. At least it's far far less of a stretch than you've made. It also makes more sense for the citizens. As more Americans die because they lack of health insurance to get the treatments they need than terrorism, homicide, drunk driving and HIV combined.

 

[Gonz]

Actually it makes a ton of sense to fix a huge problem our citizens are having and catch up to other countries in the healthcare arena. That would be right.

Catch up to other countries? Didn't you rmomma ever tell you not to be a sheep. Other countries have different priorities than the USA. Other countries also pay their corporations to compete agaisnt ours. Should we pay ours to compete too? Of course not.

The problem we have in teh healtchcare industry is created by the same people that created the recent housing collapse...the federal government. By forcing a corporation to follow gov't set guidelines, the rules are altered. Capitalism cann't work as inteded & everyone gets hurt. Fer chrissake, look at Medicare. Trace its history. It's a house of cards set in front of a fan.

As for Constitutional that you've played out that argument. You showed time and time again that you did not care about the Constitution under Bush. It's hypocritical for you to keep throwing it out there when you think it's convenient for your argument.

I've never backed off my full support of the absolute Constitution. I explained, several times, the reasoning behind my support of the federal warpowers. I'll explain again....It is a war. The rules have changed under a war situation. They've also always been reverted. The alternative is the President using his constitutionally mandated authority to declare martial law & suspending habeas corpus, as well as every other guarantee. That woudl have been worse than listening to a few middleeast to US phone calls.

Also you somehow stretched the ability to declare war into permission to declare war on anyone and anytime for any reason.

Look at the wording. It's clear as a bell. Congress has teh authority to declare war. PERIOD. There are no limitations to that power.

Damn, that's clearly not what the founders intended.

That is most likely true. However, they set forth the rules to allow Congress to declare war as Congress see's fit.

We're going to say the right to life and the general welfare clearly allow healthcare.

I've shown you that Madision & Jefferson both made it clear that general welfare is not meant as an open ended expense. There are far more pressing concerns to our citizens (food & housing) that are not general welfare. Healthcare is a gov't created problem. Get gov't out of it & allow the system to work.

As more Americans die because they lack of health insurance to get the treatments they need than terrorism, homicide, drunk driving and HIV combined.

Those numbers are, as it turns out, quite suspect...starting with th esimple fact that we're at least 3times larger than any other country. The population base alone skews the numbers. (accidents, crime)

 

[randomJACKASS]

I, ________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:

I will complain about the destruction of 1st Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 1st Amendment Rights.

I will complain about the destruction of my 2nd Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights by legally but brazenly brandishing unconcealed firearms in public.

I will foreswear the time-honored principles of fairness, decency, and respect by screaming unintelligible platitudes regarding tyranny, Nazi-ism, and socialism at public town halls. Also.

I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:

•Social Security
•Medicare/Medicaid
•State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
•Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
•US Postal Service
•Roads and Highways
•Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
•The US Railway System
•Public Subways and Metro Systems
•Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
•Rest Areas on Highways
•Sidewalks
•All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009 federal senate appropriations)
•Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
•Public and State Universities and Colleges
•Public Primary and Secondary Schools
•Sesame Street
•Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children
•Public Museums
•Libraries
•Public Parks and Beaches
•State and National Parks
•Public Zoos
•Unemployment Insurance
•Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services
•Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or Federal Government (pretty much all of them)
•Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)
•Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)
•Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD's ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking
•Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies
•Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies

If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care

I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.

I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist locations, including but not limited to:

•Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History
•The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments
•The government-operated Statue of Liberty
•The Grand Canyon
•The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials
•The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery
•All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC


I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.

I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America.

I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army.

I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.

Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.

Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.

SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF __________ IN THE YEAR ___.

_____________ _________________________

Signed Printed Name/Town and State

Did you author this? If it is you, I am figuring you modeled it around Gonz's line of bullshit... Er, ahem, I mean ¹philosophies?

If you did write it it is sheer brilliance!

¹As indicated by his posts, which are for all I know most likely meant as satire....

 

[MrBishop]

I'm afraid that I can't take credit, rJA. Originally meant as humour, it hits surprisingly close to home, eh.

 

[spike]

Catch up to other countries? Didn't you rmomma ever tell you not to be a sheep. Other countries have different priorities than the USA.

My momma told be to be competetive. When I see someone else doing better I try to improve. The US should improve their healthcare so they're not lagging behind so much.

The problem we have in teh healtchcare industry is created by the same people that created the recent housing collapse...the federal government.

Lack of regulation caused the housing collapse. The healthcare problem is because our system is based on greed instead of fixing people. Repeat customers make money. Not fixing people and not seeing them again. Full hospitals make money not empty ones with a bunch of healthy people running around outside.

I've never backed off my full support of the absolute Constitution. I explained, several times, the reasoning behind my support of the federal warpowers. I'll explain again....It is a war.

So you supported going against the Constitution because you got scared into it.

The rules have changed under a war situation. They've also always been reverted.

So you're just hoping without any guarantee that they'll give up this power at some future date when there are no more terrorists.

That woudl have been worse than listening to a few middleeast to US phone calls.

That's certainly not all they're listening to. Do a little research.

Look at the wording. It's clear as a bell. Congress has teh authority to declare war. PERIOD. There are no limitations to that power.

Declare war. Not invade countries that aren't threatening us without declaring war, not "bring them out of the 2nd century", not "spreading democracy", not having permanent bases in countries we're not fighting.

That is most likely true.

But you don't care what they intended.

I've shown you that Madision & Jefferson both made it clear that general welfare is not meant as an open ended expense.

And I showed you Hamilton's interpretation.

There are far more pressing concerns to our citizens (food & housing) that are not general welfare. Healthcare is a gov't created problem. Get gov't out of it & allow the system to work.

Nope, this is about the most pressing concern. Not as many people are dying from starvation or exposure as are from health related concerns. Healthcare is not a gov't created problem. They're not dropping coverage, denying claims, and denying people with pre-existing conditions because of the government. That would be bullshit. It's the greed and inefficiency.

Those numbers are, as it turns out, quite suspect...starting with th esimple fact that we're at least 3times larger than any other country. The population base alone skews the numbers. (accidents, crime)

No, the fact that more Americans die because they lack of health insurance to get the treatments they need than terrorism, homicide, drunk driving and HIV combined has nothing to do with the size of our country.

 

[Gonz]

And I showed you Hamilton's interpretation

Interpretation by a 3rd party vs the AUTHOR.

I win.

has nothing to do with the size of our country

No? 50 states, most as large than the EU member nations. Combine all the numbers. I bet, taking out the incidental deaths, making it healthacre vs healthcare, we'd be #1.

 

[2minkey]

okay gonz, back it up.

 

[randomJACKASS]

okay gonz, back it up.

As if!

 

[spike]

Interpretation by a 3rd party vs the AUTHOR.

I win.

Hamilton contributed to the Constitution, was a signatory, and a large contributor to the Federalist papers. There's no logical way to discount him. Sorry.

No? 50 states, most as large than the EU member nations. Combine all the numbers. I bet, taking out the incidental deaths, making it healthacre vs healthcare, we'd be #1.

No, you have no backing for this statement. It's not even rational. It's also not the numbers we were talking about. The statement in question is this...

"more Americans die because they lack of health insurance to get the treatments they need than terrorism, homicide, drunk driving and HIV combined has nothing to do with the size of our country."

This has nothing to do with the size of our country and is not affected by other countries statistics. You just add up the numbers.

I'm assuming you've conceded the other points of mine that you ignored.

 

[randomJACKASS]

You should assume that these folks will only concede to being duped by the distortions ,lies and fear mongering they wish was true!

Sometimes you defy belief spike, in your ruthless attempts to "win" the argument. These folks are not even capable of comprehending the idea of actually investigating anything but their pet theory, or admitting to the possibility that they are wrong. Agenda is everything to them. They are sometimes even willing to accept lies and even spread them in an effort to further the larger picture of their agenda.

Don't get me wrong, we progressives sometimes get close minded too, me included, but at least liberals and progressives are thinkers who really try to look at all angles. Deep thinkers do not conservatives make. Even conservatives who possess high IQs just aren't capable of deep thought, or at least refuse to engage in it.

Conservatives for the most part are just sheep. That is why they always try to call others sheep, because they hate the fact that it is them that are sheep. They also hate it wen 2minkey gets bored and sneaks out into the barn and night and buttfucks one!

 

[Cerise]

They also hate it wen 2minkey gets bored and sneaks out into the barn and night and buttfucks one!

Uh, oh. Now you've done it!

 

[Gonz]

I'm assuming you've conceded the other points of mine that you ignored.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

As for proving it minkey, sorry, I don't have the time. You may, if you are so inclined.

 

[Gonz]

These folks are not even capable of comprehending the idea of actually investigating anything...

but at least liberals and progressives are thinkers who really try to look at all angles. Deep thinkers do not conservatives make. Even conservatives who possess high IQs just aren't capable of deep thought, or at least refuse to engage in it.

Just a little FYI...

The reason I'm so rabid is I did investigate. I investigated 30+ years worth of lies that I'd been told by the media, the pols & the intelligencia. I didn't gradually move right. I was propelled with such force that a lesser men would have cracked. The lies & distortions were so amazingly clear once the societal blinders were removed. Polite society be damned. Speak the truth...

 

[spike]

Either you respond to the points or you concede the points. I would especially like to see you respond to these:

Declare war. Not invade countries that aren't threatening us without declaring war, not "bring them out of the 2nd century", not "spreading democracy", not having permanent bases in countries we're not fighting.

So you're just hoping without any guarantee that they'll give up this power at some future date when there are no more terrorists.

No, the fact that more Americans die because they lack of health insurance to get the treatments they need than terrorism, homicide, drunk driving and HIV combined has nothing to do with the size of our country.

Lack of regulation caused the housing collapse. The healthcare problem is because our system is based on greed instead of fixing people. Repeat customers make money. Not fixing people and not seeing them again. Full hospitals make money not empty ones with a bunch of healthy people running around outside.

Or you could just tryo to respond to all of them.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Beheading your own children for food makes more sense than responding to a progressive liberal in any real debate.

 

[spike]

Yeah, I could imagine it's pretty embarrassing when you don't have any rational response to the progressive's points.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

rational response to the progressive's points.

oxymoron. It would require a rational progressive point.