Typical complaint "Mexicans standing on the corner. You need to check them out"

spike

New Member
TUCSON -- Every day, as Sgt. Russ Charlton patrols the south side of Tucson, he encounters a wide range of this city's residents -- legal, illegal, native-born, naturalized, just passing through. To him, their immigration status is largely irrelevant. "People are just people," Charlton said.

But in a city less than an hour's drive from the Mexican border, Charlton and his fellow officers suddenly are at the center of a roiling immigration debate, and Arizona's new and controversial immigration law is almost certain to transform how they do their job.

"We're way too busy," Charlton said of the law's requirement that police officers question anyone they reasonably suspect of being in the country illegally. "We don't have enough officers on the street to look for other stuff like that. If they're not doing anything, they're just being normal people. Why would I do that?"

Supporters view the law as a common-sense tactic to drive away some of the state's estimated 450,000 illegal immigrants and deter others from coming. Opponents foresee harassment, racial profiling and fear. The police find themselves in the middle.

"We are in a tenuous position as law enforcement," Tucson Police Chief Roberto A. Villaseñor said, noting that the law allows citizens to sue police agencies that do not enforce it. "No matter which way we go, there are lawsuits in the wings. The ones who are going to get beaten up on this most are the law enforcement agencies."

Although some police groups have endorsed the law, a Tucson patrolman on Thursday sued Arizona to block it. Martin Escobar, acting on his own, argued that enforcing the law would impede criminal investigations and violate the U.S. Constitution.

A Latino religious consortium also filed suit, while national civil liberties organizations prepared a separate challenge and the Justice Department continued to consider one. An array of opponents pushed for an economic boycott of the state and planned nationwide protests on Saturday, even as politicians in several other states called for similar laws.

On Capitol Hill, partly in response to the Arizona law, Senate Democrats introduced a "framework" for an immigration bill designed to strengthen security along the 2,000-mile border with Mexico and create a path to legalization for millions of undocumented immigrants in the country. House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) said there is "not a chance" that Congress will pass an immigration bill this year.
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Police consider Tucson, a city of 550,000, a way station for drugs and people headed north. Immigration politics have always been complicated here, pitting those who say undocumented migrants bring crime and tax burdens against those who say welcoming them is a matter of social justice.

The day after the Arizona legislature approved the bill, the police headquarters was flooded with phone calls. A typical complaint, according to Villaseñor, was this: "Hey, there are some Mexicans standing on the corner? You need to check them out."

The police chief considered the requests "ridiculous" because "a lot of people stand on street corners." Villaseñor, a Tucson native who joined the police force in 1980 and became chief last year, said he understands the frustrations but objects to the law on several levels.

"Too many vagaries," he said. He said that he doubts there is a law officer "anywhere in the state of Arizona" who can accurately describe how to enforce the measure and that he fears it will lead to racial profiling, despite the law's prohibition of the practice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042904970.html?hpid=topnews

It's been established that no offense needs to have been committed to be forced to prove your legal status but it would be ridiculous if someone could just call the cops on you like that.
 

ResearchMonkey

Well-Known Member
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Yep, gotta get the riff-raft off the streets. It's a shame that the laws went un-enforced for so long, now the streets have illegals on every corner trying to work under-the-table and not paying taxes.

It's time to release the Krakken.


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spike

New Member
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Yep, gotta get the riff-raft off the streets. It's a shame that the laws went un-enforced for so long, now the streets have illegals on every corner trying to work under-the-table and not paying taxes.

It's time to release the Krakken..

You want to make it so if you stand on a corner you will need to show your papers?
 

ResearchMonkey

Well-Known Member
ME questioned by the cops? It's happens all the time. I film all over the place day and night. A coupla' questions maybe produce and ID and explain my intentions and it all good. I've even had cops use their lights to protect me in risky shots after they discovered I was in good legal standing.

Now if I had warrants, was a criminal or I was an illegal alien, sure I'd worry about it. I might even leave town. -- But I'm a law abiding citizen of the United States.

Why would I care what criminals and illegals think about getting ID'd?

Obamacare, now THAT is fascism in the making.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
You want to make it so if you stand on a corner you will need to show your papers?

Don't be dense.

Fairfax & Olympic (at least used to be) is illegal alien corner from 5AM onward. Keeping it illegal for ILLEGAL ALIENS to work, or rent or whatever, is not the crime. Being an ILLEGAL ALIEN is.
 

Cerise

Well-Known Member
The same people who are so opposed to identifying illegals have no problem with forcing citizens to have their "papers."

Dems spark alarm with call for national ID card

Democratic leaders have proposed requiring every worker in the nation to carry a national identification card with biometric information, such as a fingerprint, within the next six years, according to a draft of the measure.

The national ID program would be titled the Believe System, an acronym for Biometric Enrollment, Locally stored Information and Electronic Verification of Employment.

It would require all workers across the nation to carry a card with a digital encryption key that would have to match work authorization databases.
 

spike

New Member
Don't be dense.

Fairfax & Olympic (at least used to be) is illegal alien corner from 5AM onward. Keeping it illegal for ILLEGAL ALIENS to work, or rent or whatever, is not the crime. Being an ILLEGAL ALIEN is.

Your being dense. Standing on a corner is not illegal.
 

spike

New Member
The same people who are so opposed to identifying illegals have no problem with forcing citizens to have their "papers."

You've crammed 3 fallacies into one sentence there.

1. "The same people"

It's not the "same people". Some people are against both, some people are for both, some people are for one and not the other.

2. "opposed to identifying illegals"

Illegals are not the only ones that will be forced to identify themselves and prove their legal status.

3. "forcing citizens to have their "papers.""

The id card is not something you would have to have every time you left the house to prevent from being detained.
 

Cerise

Well-Known Member
1. The "same people" are the Leftists. Duh.

2. Anyone has the right to remain silent. :shrug:

3. Immigrants must carry their alien registration documents at all times......so what's the big deal? Oh, you mean they might not have any registration docs in the first place?


This law mirrors the federal immigration law:

(e) Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties
Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.

See? They already have to have it every time they leave the house.

Here's a nice summary of the AZ law by the NYSlimes, which should clear up your confusion: Why Arizona Drew a Line
 

spike

New Member
Name one citizen who has been unduly put out due to THIS LAW.

They just signed it so I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is. I imagine you can see the clear ability to unduly put out citizens that don't have their papers though.
 

spike

New Member
1. The "same people" are the Leftists. Duh.

Oh, well then you're generalization is a definitely a fallacy then. Your own article proves that since it says the ACLU is against the measure.

2. Anyone has the right to remain silent.

This comment makes no sense in context with the fallacy you were trying to defend.

3. Immigrants must carry their alien registration documents at all times......so what's the big deal?

Citizens will have to have their papers on them at all times or face detainment. That's the big deal.

See? They already have to have it every time they leave the house.

Yes, but now citizens will need their papers as well if they do not want to be detained.
 

ResearchMonkey

Well-Known Member
Fact is ~100,000 illegals disappeared in a week, months before the law goes into effect. Thats great news for Az.

The only fallacy here is your imagination and argument.

Maybe that pea-pod gave you a concussion.
 

Gotholic

Well-Known Member
The id card is not something you would have to have every time you left the house to prevent from being detained.

Baby steps, spike, baby steps. You cannot turn up the heat too fast otherwise too many people will realize they are being cooked. I can easily see this "ID only for workers" being a bait and switch from a mile away.
 
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