Why drilling won't help with the oil crisis

2minkey

2minkey

bootlicker
Gato_Solo said:
That's not what you, or your source, espouse. We should've been drilling since the 1980's...right after TMI caused a scare in the nuclear energy industry. Yes, we should be finding alternative energy, but we should also be using more domestic energy as opposed to foreign.
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a lone, rational voice speaks out.

too bad most folks are too busy whipping this drilling issue into an imaginary symbol of what it is not rather than taking a pragmatic attitude.

"drill, drill, drill... fuck the spotted owl and you liberal fags!"

"more drilling will RUIN THE EARTH! fascists!"
 
MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
MrBishop said:
For the former: Hydro is cheaper up here 'cause it's more abundant and the infrastructure is in place already... not quite the same 'down south', where I believe that coal-power is more abundant (I'll have to check).
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new-elect-fuel-source.gif
 
Professur

Professur

Well-Known Member
MrBishop said:
new-elect-fuel-source.gif
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That shows dispersion, not cost. In terms of cost (over any predicted period) hydro is always the cheapest to produce, and always is the first tapped, and always runs at over 90% capacity. I maintain my position that any electric vehicle is still going to rely on fossil fuel for it's power source for at least the next half century. Add to that, the fact that most power grids don't have the surplus generating capacity to handle electric cars, few houses have the wiring capable of charging one, most city wiring won't take the added strain, and to top it all off, not one electric car on the drawing boards anywhere have the capacity to do more than grocery shop for a week without recharging, and almost all would require daily charging under any normal usage ....strikes me as a lose, lose proposition. Equally, ethanol is a tragic waste of taxpayer's money. Waste cooking oil for diesels is one of the few viable alternatives, since it relies on recycling waste instead of producing new.
 
MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
That's a geographical statistic. Hydro might be cheaper, but it's not the most used in the USA because it's not available everywhere, whereby coal seems to be most used, and IMO thus first used.

The electric car would be more viable up here where our hydro network produces more than we use. Whether the added strain will become an issue :shrug: It would mean recharging at specific times of the day/night where high industrial sites are mostly off.

The main issue that I see with electric cars is the battery. Manufacturing and disposal thereof is messy environmentally at best...disastrous at worst.

Ethanol!
 
MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Ethanol is a whole other mess. Literally burning food to run cars. People are chopping down rainforests to grow soybeans for Ethanol.
 
Professur

Professur

Well-Known Member
Just FYI, everyone knows that gas (petrol) is at least twice the price in europe, doncha? Know how they deal with it? Smaller, lighter, more efficient cars. There's no need for an electric car, just use the technology that we already have.


BTW, while people are pulling up statistics, why not pull up the one that shows world and american petrolium consumption ... by usage. Surprise, surprise ... the vast majority of it doesn't go into cars fuel tanks at all. Most of it goes into powerplants, home heating, and plastic manufacturing. Electric cars won't bring down the price at all, and won't save anyone a penny. (no matter how many faces it has)
 
MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
More diesel cars, more standard transmission cars, smaller cars and less urban sprawl.

Couldn't find the world chart. Here's Canada's chart.
IND_CO_03-eng.jpg
 
MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
The point of the whole thread is that: Drilling for more oil isn't the solution to the current oil crisis, nor for the upcoming oil crisis. Demand is going up faster than supply can keep up. No matter how much more oil is dumped into the market, the demand will outstrip it.

Granted, we use oil for more than just cars...but if you count in cars, public transport, and shipping of product/people (air, ship, train, truck), you've got a large percentage of the oil pie dedicated to the transport.

China has 40 cars per 1000 people...that's going up fast! Estimated to get to 67/1000 in 2010 and upwards from there. In 10 - 15 years, China should be where America is now 765/1000 - 'cept that they have 3 times the population. :shrug:

Their industry is growing by leaps and bounds, demanding more oil for power plants and consumer products. They're going to need a bigger straw.

I forsee 200$/barrel by Q4 2010. $6/gallon for gasoline at the pumps. Ready for it?

*
The only way to reduce the price is to reduce demand. Replace oil-burning power-plants with Nuclear or Hydro. Replace gas-only engines to bi-energy or electric where possible. Replace home oil-heating and cooking with electric.

Unless you've got another way that would also apply to growing markets like China and India.
 
catocom

catocom

Well-Known Member
MrBishop said:
The point of the whole thread is that: Drilling for more oil isn't the solution to the current oil crisis, nor for the upcoming oil crisis. Demand is going up faster than supply can keep up. No matter how much more oil is dumped into the market, the demand will outstrip it.

Granted, we use oil for more than just cars...but if you count in cars, public transport, and shipping of product/people (air, ship, train, truck), you've got a large percentage of the oil pie dedicated to the transport.

China has 40 cars per 1000 people...that's going up fast! Estimated to get to 67/1000 in 2010 and upwards from there. In 10 - 15 years, China should be where America is now 765/1000 - 'cept that they have 3 times the population. :shrug:

Their industry is growing by leaps and bounds, demanding more oil for power plants and consumer products. They're going to need a bigger straw.

I forsee 200$/barrel by Q4 2010. $6/gallon for gasoline at the pumps. Ready for it?

*
The only way to reduce the price is to reduce demand. Replace oil-burning power-plants with Nuclear or Hydro. Replace gas-only engines to bi-energy or electric where possible. Replace home oil-heating and cooking with electric.

Unless you've got another way that would also apply to growing markets like China and India.
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nothing is a solution.
everything is the solution.
 
spike

spike

New Member
Professur said:
Just FYI, everyone knows that gas (petrol) is at least twice the price in europe, doncha? Know how they deal with it? Smaller, lighter, more efficient cars. There's no need for an electric car, just use the technology that we already have.
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Electric cars are far more efficient in overall fuel consumption than their gas counterparts. So a smaller, light electric car would be much more efficient than a small light gas car.

So there's actually a pretty good chance the reduction in demand could affect the price.
 
Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
MrBishop said:
It's already illegal to drive over those speeds..why in blazes is it legal to manufacture cars that can get over those speeds and then some? :shrug:
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32 states are over 65. It's not the governments place to limit my horsepower. States can regulate speed on PUBLIC HIGHWAYS.
 
MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
That was caused by politicians. Had the market been allowed to run as it should, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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As it should and as it does are two entirely different things.

As it does = grab for the money, fuck the little people, where's my bonus?
 
MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
32 states are over 65. It's not the governments place to limit my horsepower. States can regulate speed on PUBLIC HIGHWAYS.
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Ya got any where the Speed Limit is 120mph, 140MPH, 200MPH?

GVTs limit what condition your car has to be in, seatbelts, emission standards, safety features for kids, etc etc...
 
spike

spike

New Member
Gonz said:
That was caused by politicians. Had the market been allowed to run as it should, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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Wrong, we're in this mess because of a lack of regulation. The market is full of idiots and greedy bastards and can't be trusted to operate on it's own.
 
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