You be the judge

Professur

Well-Known Member
A new feature thread. Open to all, all positions equal, please. From the initial report of a crime, you judge the criminal and pass sentence. Think he can be reformed? Pass sentence that way. Feel free to demand more evidence before judging if you want. It's open season, folks.

Attacking another's position is frowned upon.


BMW slices minivan in half
Mother, daughter and friend die at scene as father is rushed to hospital with critical injuries
By TAMARA CHERRY, SUN MEDIA
The Toronto Sun

Bookmark and Share


Crews responding to a collision on Finch Ave. W. and Tobermory Dr. late Saturday found a van split in two by the impact of a speeding car. Three people — a wife, daughter and family friend — were killed in the crash. The driver of the second car faces charges of causing death and impairment. (Sun Media/Dave Abel)

TORONTO -- In a split second, a family was shattered, three people were killed and one young man's life was changed forever.

All this, police say, because of speed and booze on a North York street.

A husband, wife, daughter and two friends were in a 1997 Honda Odyssey van, heading home from a church outing around midnight along Finch Ave. on Saturday night.

As the van began turning left onto Tobermory Dr., a 1999 BMW 540 peaked over a hill just east of the intersection at speeds some Toronto Police officers estimated to be 200 km/h.

The BMW slammed into the van, literally tearing it into pieces. The mother and daughter were ejected from the van, along with a family friend.

'CAN'T IMAGINE'


All three were pronounced dead at the scene, their bodies scattered across about 30 metres of blood-stained pavement.

The husband, who was driving, and another friend were taken to hospital with critical injuries.

"I believe that he may survive his injuries," Staff-Sgt. Brian Bowman said of the man who lost both his wife and daughter. "I can't even imagine."

And the BMW driver, a 21-year-old man who was already known to traffic cops, was left with minor injuries -- so minor that he was taxied into the Traffic Services police station late yesterday afternoon.

Roman Luskin, the registered owner of the car, was charged with several counts of impaired driving causing death and causing bodily harm, criminal negligence causing death and causing bodily harm and refusing to provide a breath sample.

He was the only occupant of his car.

The van was registered to Pho Si Taing, believed to be the man behind the wheel. Media reports identified his daughter as Khan "Christine" Taing and his wife as Hon To.

After the bodies were removed and the injured taken to hospital, what was left was enough to make even seasoned traffic officers shake their heads: A van split in two pieces, debris scattered across the road.

"That is one of the most horrific impacts I've ever seen," Burrows said.

"We harp on people to make that right decision, no drinking and driving -- any amount of alcohol is not acceptable -- and at the same time, we also say the same thing about speeding," said Burrows, who described the mishap as "100% preventable."

As the accident scene was cleaned up, piece by piece, area residents gathered around the intersection, many with the same message.

"You'd think people would get the message by now, but I guess not," said Michael Donly, 25.
source
 

paul_valaru

100% Pure Canadian Beef
vehicular manslaughter.

even if the minivan ran a red, it was the excessive speed that caused the deaths.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Internet lurer 'parent's worst nightmare'
By KEVIN MARTIN, SUN MEDIA
The Calgary Sun
CALGARY - Calling him "a parent's worst nightmare," a prosecutor yesterday said a man who tried to lure young girls into sexual encounters should be sentenced to "at least four years."

Crown lawyer Nadine Nesbitt said such a term is necessary to ensure impressionable minors are protected from predators like James Hepburn.

Nesbitt said the fact Hepburn, 30, of Olds, was able to convince four adolescent girls to either expose and touch themselves on webcams, or send him pornographic photos of themselves, illustrated their vulnerability.

"It just shows how adolescents are not thinking, they aren't thinking like adults," Nesbitt told Justice Sheila Martin.

"That's why they need the court and the law to protect them ... from adults like Mr. Hepburn, who was 27 at the time, from preying upon them," Nesbitt said.

Martin will sentence Hepburn, who pleaded guilty to four charges of Internet luring and one of producing child pornography, next week.
source
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Never mind web-cams, digital cameras and cell phones with cameras and videocams are all over the place.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
A new feature thread. Open to all, all positions equal, please. From the initial report of a crime, you judge the criminal and pass sentence. Think he can be reformed? Pass sentence that way. Feel free to demand more evidence before judging if you want. It's open season, folks.

we have our own laws in this country, but i mostly agree with Paul's view there on the first one.

molestation changes would apply on that 2nd one +maybe...
 

H2O boy

New Member
first story

three counts vehicular manslaughter two counts attempted vehicular manslaughter five counts reckless endangerment one count driving under influence

maximum on each offense and time to be stacked

secons story

four counts aggravated child abuse four counts attempt to manufacture cghild pornography

max on each offense time to be stacked with special child sex offense enhancement so no early comunity release
 

But what of the girls parents? I am not gonna get in on this "holier than thou" ideas of what revenge should be exacted from criminals game. I really think prison as it stands only makes criminals better at what they do and angrier.

But seriously, what of these girls parents? I think the cases should be referred to some kind of a children's advocate for review so these folks get a little wake up call about being more involved with their kids lives and to uncover possible abuses and negligence from inside the home. I can just about guarantee you that all of these girls parents were at very least, neglectful and quite likely abusive to their daughters in some way themselves.

As for the dude, I am much more in favor of finding a way to ensure he changes in his behavior than a lengthy punitive only prison stay where he becomes prey himself and comes out an angrier and much more effective at preying on kids. That's not at all to say you can let this slide, and confinement is a complete bust, but we have to look more at prevention than we do and less at revenge in my opinion.

No I don't have any answers, that is why I am not giving sentence recommendations, but I know that criminal justice in at least the United States just breeds more crime and recidivism. In this particular case, I am not aware enough enough of what all Canada does in such cases to comment too much
 

H2O boy

New Member
in certain foreign lands where people dont much like us they behead over less than this

they dont have any repeat offenders and the crime rate is somewhat lower than ours

punishment does have its advantages unless youre the giulty party i guess

victims have rights too

put yourself in a position where society has no choice but to lock you up and i really dont much care who rapes you in the cage. dont want to be raped? dont do the stuff that puts you in the cage. seems simple enough
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
In certain foreign lands, they stone you to death for the crime of being a woman and being seen with a make you're not related to...what's your point, H2O? IN S.A., for instance...the victim is punished more than the perp.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
In certain foreign lands, they stone you to death for the crime of being a woman and being seen with a make you're not related to...what's your point, H2O? IN S.A., for instance...the victim is punished more than the perp.

I think he's saying "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time", or summat. I like the way you brought up SA, though. Some of their laws are particularly strict, but the people who live there know it, so they really don't have an excuse, either. If you really want draconian, however, look at Singapore...
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
I think he's saying "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time", or summat. I like the way you brought up SA, though. Some of their laws are particularly strict, but the people who live there know it, so they really don't have an excuse, either. If you really want draconian, however, look at Singapore...
:bs:
The people who live there generally were born there and the law is hardly equal across the sexes, eh. Particularly when it comes to leaving said country. Off hand, I'd say that most women are trapped there. It is very easy to go astray from the law there.

Case in point
The sentencing of a 75-year-old widow to 40 lashes and four months in prison for mingling with two young men who were reportedly bringing her bread has sparked new criticism of Saudi Arabia's ultra-conservative religious police and judiciary.

Khamisa Sawadi, who is Syrian but was married to a Saudi, was convicted and sentenced last week for meeting men who were not her immediate relatives. The two men, including one who was Sawadi's late husband's nephew, were also found guilty and sentenced to prison terms and lashes.

The woman's lawyer, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem, said on Monday that he planned to appeal against the verdict, which also demands that Sawadi be deported after serving her prison term. He declined to provide more details, and said his client, who was not serving her sentence yet, was not speaking to the media.

A Saudi newspaper reported that the elderly woman had met the two 24-year-old men last April after asking them to bring her five loaves of bread.

The men - identified as the nephew, Fahd al-Anzi, and his friend Hadiyan bin Zein - went to Sawadi's home in the city of al-Chamil, north of the capital, Riyadh. After delivering the bread, the men were arrested by the religious police.

Buying bread OMG!!! KILL THE WITCH!!!!
*poke*
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
:bs:
The people who live there generally were born there and the law is hardly equal across the sexes, eh. Particularly when it comes to leaving said country. Off hand, I'd say that most women are trapped there. It is very easy to go astray from the law there.

I never said anything about equality. That is a purely Western idea. You continually try to force others into your viewpoint, and, because it is forced, you will continue to fail. :shrug:

Bish said:
Case in point

Buying bread OMG!!! KILL THE WITCH!!!!
*poke*

Once again...not our laws. Theirs. If they break their laws, how does that impact upon you? In this case, I'd say it was extreme, but I don't get to make that call because it isn't my law. If I had to follow their laws, I'd disagree with it as well, and state my opinion. Since you brought this story up, how would you decide on punishment for the offending parties in this case. Remember...you must follow their law in passing judgement.

OMG!!! KILL THE BISH!!! *poke* ;)
 
Execution is not an option in this country is not effective in any other way than preventing the victim of it from potentially commiting more crime, and costing the taxpayers money to be wasted, not to mention the innocents that have been executed. Harsh sentences in our current system are just knee jerk feel good solutions that increase recidivism.

When the he'll is anybody going to wake the fuck up and address causes an conditions; perhaps crime reducing solutions can be found!
 

spike

New Member
I never said anything about equality. That is a purely Western idea.

Equality is certainly not a purely western idea.

Once again...not our laws. Theirs. If they break their laws, how does that impact upon you?

None of these cases really impact any of us.

Since you brought this story up, how would you decide on punishment for the offending parties in this case. Remember...you must follow their law in passing judgement.

I think we can state an opinion on any of these cases that does not follow the law.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
I think we can state an opinion on any of these cases that does not follow the law.

I'm looking for insightful, useful positions, not just "kill them all, let Gawd sort them out". I want to hear who the reformers think can be helped, or is beyond saving. I want to hear meaning full jail terms.... as opposed to 15 years in prison for tax evasion while a child molester gets time served.

More importantly Folks ... I want your ideas on the posts, not your criticism of everyone else's.
 
I'm looking for insightful, useful positions, not just "kill them all, let Gawd sort them out". I want to hear who the reformers think can be helped, or is beyond saving. I want to hear meaning full jail terms.... as opposed to 15 years in prison for tax evasion while a child molester gets time served.

More importantly Folks ... I want your ideas on the posts, not your criticism of everyone else's.

That is what I'm trying to give, although my last post was from my iPhone so I didn't have the link

Try this, and this, and actually please read them or don't comment. I too am sick of kneejerking and shutting down to new info.
 
Top