Cap and Trade
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Inkara1
Well-Known Member
I'm not surprised you would spew the Democrat party line on this. But just because Nancy Pelosi says it's good doesn't mean it is. I mean, it's good you're doing so well in your job (you've never told us what it actually is) that you can afford the higher prices this will lead to. But I'm sure the poor folk who will have a much higher electric bill in the midwest and south will be so happy being comforted that this bill is "a huge step toward responsibility" (regardless of whether it will actually work or not). You always bitch about how much Bush fucked up the economy and ruined the standard of living for everyone, but here's this bill that is highly likely to lower the standard of living even more for many people and you're supporting it. Is now the time to lower the standard of living more?
randomJACKASS
Banned
Some of us feel its worth it. Nobody likes to pay more for utilities, but some of us care enough about the future and our planet, (and our children, and their children, ad infinitum) to see the necessity. I also doubt if you have looked at all the perks this bill offers companies to clean their act up. Everyone bitches when a cost increases, yet everyone finds a way when it's important. Funny that this country is always the least concerned with being responsible environmentally or socially. To many religious kooks with some fantasy notion that there is no future cuz Jebus is coming. Even that book that supposedly tells them this, (it doesn't but they think it does) says nobody will know the hour, so it behooves us to be good stewards of the planet regardless.
randomJACKASS
Banned
I didn't say you were, but until there is some conclusive proof that we cannot destroy the environment irreparably, why do you oppose it?
You know its funny to me that we have a small but very loud group of folks that are always denying the possibility of environmental damage, but yet over and over consistently we keep making changes for the sake of not polluting. That tells me even some of the folks who are in power whose base disbelieves, realizes the prudence of caution.
Actually I have no idea what your religious or spiritual life is, not sure I've read anything that indicated one way or the other before.
You know its funny to me that we have a small but very loud group of folks that are always denying the possibility of environmental damage, but yet over and over consistently we keep making changes for the sake of not polluting. That tells me even some of the folks who are in power whose base disbelieves, realizes the prudence of caution.
Actually I have no idea what your religious or spiritual life is, not sure I've read anything that indicated one way or the other before.
randomJACKASS
Banned
You know I think this is a big part of the problem with America. We rode a wave of prosperity so big for so long and the economy went out of control to keep up the fantasy after it should have been wound down. Good things take hard work and sometimes sacrifice, and this is one of those times. Too many of us are used to too much too easy and when reality creeps in, well ain't that just a bitch?
I in exact opposition to Gonz evidently, believe that in a crowded world like we have if community isn't a priority, well that kind of mentality will just be eliminated, one way or the other.
I in exact opposition to Gonz evidently, believe that in a crowded world like we have if community isn't a priority, well that kind of mentality will just be eliminated, one way or the other.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
This has nothing to do with the planet and everything to do with 'feeling good'. As for the perks, that usually means higher taxes/fees as well as a higher bill. As for the 'religious kooks', I find that term offensive. I also find it distressing that you believe that, just because someone is religious, that means that they are environmentally irresponsible. Most of the folks who show such irresponsibility aren't religious at all. That you assume that is quite telling...it also paints you as a bigot.
Professur
Well-Known Member
Allow me to clarify your confusion. I'm not blind to what happens around me. If the St-Lawrence river is being polluted, i want it stopped as much as anyone. What I, and i think everyone else, object to is the pseudo science being used as an excuse to pass legistation which will have very little effect on the environment, but a very large effect on my lifestyle. understand that I spend my summers on a large lake in the Laurentians. A lake who's water is drinkable without any treatment. That's because of a very powerful local EPA enforced with all the power of the local council. I personally have to have a holding tank, pumped out twice annually at a cost of $200 a load, instead of a septic tank with weepers because of my proximity to the lake. I happily pay that, knowing that the science behind that rule is solid.
To date, there is not a speck of evidence that CO2 has any effect at all on global warming. None, zip, nada. There's no proof that ground level CO2 can even make it into the upper atmosphere to have an effect. (Hey, if ground level CO2 (which is heavier than O2) can make it to the upper atmosphere, why can't the O3 produced by every photocopier in the world do the same?)
randomJACKASS
Banned
You really make sweeping broad assumptions with zero evidence. I see it in your posts and I see it in this, but I digress....
Everyone I ever met who labeled themselves and "evangelical", who told me they believe in the rapture, and spent most of their time with me either trying to decide if I believe in Jesus "enough" to be saved, or sure that I didn't and was hell bent to convince me, qualifies as a religious kook to me. I'm sorry but that level of fanaticism and judgment of others and the world itself is silly and wrong in my opinion. This does not even mean I always hate such people, some are well meaning and essentially nice, but more often they are obsessed with heaven, and deluded about the nature of God, to the exclusion of living life in the now. Every one of them I have ever been on the subject of politics with is hardcore right and strictly poo poo on all things environmental and equally sure Jesus is coming any day now, so fuck all of this world except converting people and a lot of brimstone, and phony frothy appeal.
If you took the term "religious kook" and was offended, that is about you man, not me....
I use it freely because I've had way over my fill of it and that's about me....
Winky
Well-Known Member
He's gots the right idea!
"Anyone who takes up arms to fight with the people, they are worthy of execution."
Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami
"Anyone whos thinking crap and trade is a good idea is worthy of execution"
Winky
"Anyone who takes up arms to fight with the people, they are worthy of execution."
Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami
"Anyone whos thinking crap and trade is a good idea is worthy of execution"
Winky
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
You are just as guilty...which also paints you as a hypocrite. You see...you didn't specify, until the following, what you meant. You also, at the end, say you use it freely, which still marks you as a bigot. I know some folks like that, and I do not associate with them. That doesn't make everyone who is religious a kook any more than that makes everyone who is an atheist the anti-Christ. You chose your words, and I called you on them. Simple as that.
rj said:
Nope. sorry. Its entirely about you. You're the one calling people 'kooks'.
My personal take on the environment is to do as little damage as possible in everything that you do. I don't need higher taxes and higher fuel bills to justify getting a 'warm fuzzy', deluded into thinking that that will help the environment in any meaningful way. However, you may continue to live in your bigotry and hypocrisy if that makes you feel better...
randomJACKASS
Banned
Maybe I have a faith that works because while I tend to support this, I am sure it will be just fine somehow, and I do my part best I can. I live most of my life under that assumption and am never disappointed.
randomJACKASS
Banned
No its you, and calling me names IS a personal attack. Show me anyone who isn't a hypocrite in some way! You can't because there is nobody! As for bigot I suggest you look in the mirror because generally you seem to hate a certain set of people here which would make you a bigot under the dictionary definition. For that matter, by the simplest dictionary definition every normal person can be construed as bigoted against something.
I'll sooner put you back on ignore than give you the fight you want to pick. Why to you have the need to try to pick fights?
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Sorry. You defined yourself that way, not me. As for the following...
rj said:
That is truly funny.