Abortion (Pro-life/pro-choice/both)?

[ClaireBear]

Don't ma'am me Laddo!

These are not excuses... before 9 weeks... it is indeed a clustor of cells.... at 11 weeks it slill looks more like a fish than human.

I believe that morally its not ending a life its actually saving two... the mother and her next childs. Technically... depending on where you define "a life" in the gestation period... then it could be classed as ending a life

The 3D pictures have indeed got me thinking.... it has got me thinking about all the unfortunate women who managed to steel themselves and make one of the hardest decisions of their lifetime who have been switching on the 7 Oclock news to be confronted by them!!!!

I have never condoned abortion in the latter stages of pregnancy... but in the early stages pre-12 weeks... to be honest... it is little more than a heavy period. "period"

 

[Gonz]

I believe that morally its not ending a life

If, given opportunity to fully develop, it becomes what? Thus, it is ending a life. I have no problem with that, at any stage where inprobable viability far outweighs the possible.

all the unfortunate women who managed to steel themselves and make one of the hardest decisions of their lifetime who have been switching on the 7 Oclock news to be confronted by them!!!!

What's the problem? As you pointed out

at 11 weeks it slill looks more like a fish than human.

BTW-Laddo is well into my past unfortunately.

 

[ClaireBear]

BTW-Laddo is well into my past unfortunately.

And "ma'am" is fortunately well into my future!

 

[BeardofPants]

Yes, the new 3D picture ultrasounds have certainly got people thinking - however, it's no more than what we already knew, and this same reaction occured when 2D ultrasounds first made their appearances. The fact of the matter is that there will always be women who need to make the choice to have an abortion, regardless of what reasoning she has behind it. To legislate against that choice is a dangerous path to take. And until men can carry babies to term, I would respectfully suggest that they have no idea what kind of trauma it is to make these kinds of decisions. Having an abortion is NOT easy, nor is making that decision.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

BoP,

Yes those 3D pics and movies are getting peoples attention, and this is just the beginning. If people can’t see it, it doesn’t really exist.

Wait until they have video of a baby being burned to death with salts!

There is no way around the legislation for or against abortion. The issue will be forced by the pro-death crowd, here’s why . . . .

As research advances they will prove beyond reasonable knowledge that an unborn child indeed is a living person.

Science will soon prove a child that is forming its own cognitive thoughts with its independent emotions. That it is a living independent human that feels pain and is aware of the death it is and desire to live.


Here is the kicker . . .

There is already a very capable group of Dr’s working changing the ethos of AMA. They have proof that a child is an independent person with a attribute of an individual personality and traits of the donors of the DNA. They have emotions and feel pain and even have cognitive reasoning thoughts.

That an unborn child is a living human and need to be coveted as such

Once the ethics of abortion has changed it will be unethical to perform an abortion, one will risk losing their license to practice medicine if they perform an abortion.

So what then? The left will have to force the AMA and its members to perform un-ethical but legal abortions.

And those days will come; there is no escape from it. It is only matter of time and science.


- - - - - - - - - - -

Did you know the babies try to get away from the solution, they turn away, they move away, as if their life depended on it, even under sedation?

Imagine how the SCOTUS (Supreme Court) will react when they see the brain activity and the ultra sound movie of a child being murdered by chemical burning. You cannot hear it, but you will be able to see the screams of a dying child.

 

[ClaireBear]

Monkey until you're physically capable of becoming pregnant I'd suggest you pipe down like BOP suggests....

Both your and Gonz's posts would be extremely upsetting for any females reading this who have or are about to consider abortion.

Men have so much to say on a subject that doesn't really involve them in a huge capacity... but then thats the nature of being male!

 

[Winky]

So Clarie how old were you when you had
an abortion. In all these threads no one ever sez
"been there, done that, got the T-Shirt"

I agree no abortion should EVER be performed
after nine weeks and I'm old enough to remember
that when this "law" (OK it was a SCOUTS ruling) went
in to effect in 69 it was illegal to abort past the first trimester.

CB I've never met a woman who was happy about her abortion but then again most realize it was the right choice at the time and it really made a positive difference in their lives...

 

[ClaireBear]

So Clarie how old were you when you had
an abortion. In all these threads no one ever sez
"been there, done that, got the T-Shirt"

You don't beat around the bush do ya!!!?!!

*CB hands Winky a sledge hammer*

I think you'll find that a little more subtle!!!

I agree no abortion should EVER be performed
after nine weeks and I'm old enough to remember
that when this "law" (OK it was a SCOUTS ruling) went
in to effect in 69 it was illegal to abort past the first trimester.

I don't know about that.... my abortion was at 10 1/2 weeks...

Its a really long involved story... its not that I woke up one morning and thought "Not much happening this month...I know!... lets get me self preggers and head down the abortion shop!"

If you or indeed anyone really want to know the ins and the outs (that may be a very bad choice of phrase!) then PM me but I'm not about to spill my guts (again with the phrasiology! Sorry!) on an open thread! I'm not ashamed just I'd rather not have my situation use as fuel for the fires of the pro-lifers!

CB I've never met a woman who was happy about her abortion but then again most realize it was the right choice at the time and it really made a positive difference in their lives...

I have to admit I'm certainly not happy... relieved but not happy... I know it was the best and only choice for me but having said that I am THAT "wacko" who buys flowers on what would have been my baby's birthday and on the aniversary of the actual procedure pro-lifers had better stay clear... well clear!!!!

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Monkey until you're physically capable of becoming pregnant I'd suggest you pipe down like BOP suggests....

Both your and Gonz's posts would be extremely upsetting for any females reading this who have or are about to consider abortion.

Men have so much to say on a subject that doesn't really involve them in a huge capacity... but then thats the nature of being male!

now you're getting the point . . . I would hope a woman would read this thread and decide to give life rather than to murder it.

It would make this the most important thread I ever posted in.

Abortion is the snuffing of life, out of site out of mind is good enough for you?.

Abortion is one of those things that the more you know, the less of an option it becomes.

That child fights for its life, no screams, no visuals. It is the same as if you were killing a new born puppy with pool acid; then you can hear the screams, watch the pointless struggle to live. . . . Try it sometime if you have the stomach for it, . . . Personally I don't.

Ever wonder why they heavily sedate the woman AND the baby? (keeps the kicking down and the senses to feel it)

-if this upsets you, thats a good thing. Killing a child is wrong.

 

[ClaireBear]

Killing a child is wrong.

Yes...

So would you be willing to accept the resposibility for a child when you have the mental age of a nine year old but that didn't stop the male warden in the home from raping you?

Would you take on the care of a child when you've been using hypodermic class A drugs for the best part of 5 years and will continue to do so through out pregnancy and probably (hopefully if it lives!) the child's life!?

Would you happily introduce a new born into a family where your partner regularly beats you so hard he hospitalises you and when you're not there destroys the house and puts a knife through the cat?

Would you see a child being brought up in a home with no heat, light, running water or amenities to wash bathe and eat. Where there's no money for food.. only alcohol?

Would you see a child live its life with no physical or emotional response to the world... in constant pain but unable to express this... constantly going into seizure... and through the perfect hearing they have repeatedly hear his/her mother crying for the husband "who couldn't take it any longer?"

You would call that saving a life????? In fact are any of those situations lives?

You don't know til you're in that position... as a man you will NEVER know! Posting biased, bigotted, overly dramatised "facts" on a Off Topic forum... isn't a crusade for humanity!

 

[Professur]

Again point in fact... FATHERS can be very very blind to the real technicalities of parent hood

Sure... your kids are healthy and loving... but what if they weren't?

Maybe you should wake up a little. If my kids weren't, I'd love them just the same. Love, my dear, has nothing to do with health, appearance, or anything else. But, evidently, you've never experienced that.

Welcome to my ignore list. Enjoy your stay.

 

[ClaireBear]

Maybe you should wake up a little. If my kids weren't, I'd love them just the same. Love, my dear, has nothing to do with health, appearance, or anything else. But, evidently, you've never experienced that.

Maybe you should not take every thing on face value... and question and investigate before making snap decisions... as a pro-lifer surely thats your aim... why not follow your own advice!?

Love certainly has nothing to do with health and aesthetics although setting that aside it is often easier to understand why some women are forced to make the decision which is best for them.

There is also no need to arrogantly and agressively make assumptions about my RL and experiences...

I was simply stating that yes! Your children are happy and healthy... (you brought "loving" into the equation although I don't actually see its relevancy I was merely answering you in context)... but what if they were suffering from a disability that caused them the pain that is described in the above post?

Is it a real life for them? If you love them could you stand it to see them suffer? Tell me what are your views on euthenasia?

And in connection with my "blind" comment... as a male you never get the chance to feel a baby move within you... you never breast feed... you don't get the physicality of parenthood. The decision concerning abortion isn't an easy one to make... it isn't a black and white issue!

The psychological and emotional problems that can be associated with actually giving birth to a very badly disabled or disfigured child... knowing you were its gateway to a life of probable (as you would believe in your emotional state!) suffering, torture, humiliation and frustration are legion... self loathing is just the tip of the iceberg. she will love the child but that guilt... if she isn't a strong person could do untold damage.

Welcome to my ignore list. Enjoy your stay.

Now that is a shame... as someone who calls themself a "professur" ... a teacher? an educator? researcher? You make rash decisions very easily...

Why simply dismiss someone for not sharing the same ideas or values as you? Don't cover your ears... turn your back and walk away from the chance to explore other avenues of ideals...

And anyhoo... If we all had your attitude to discussion... I would NEVER pm you as you don't share my beliefs!

 

[HomeLAN]

And until men can carry babies to term, I would respectfully suggest that they have no idea what kind of trauma it is to make these kinds of decisions.

And I'd like to respectfully say that every fetus has both a mother and a father. Any self-respecting male has as much of a dog in that hunt as the woman, since it's HIS RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL.

To imply that males have a less valid opinion than females on this issue is damned insulting....at best.

 

[chcr]

To imply that males have a less valid opinion than females on this issue is damned insulting....at best.

They certainly do not have a less valid opinion. IMO they are every bit as responsible. Unfortunately, they usually don't have as much say.

 

[HomeLAN]

And yet when they do, they can look forward to being invited to STFU, since they have outdoor plumbing. How encouraging.

Monkey until you're physically capable of becoming pregnant I'd suggest you pipe down like BOP suggests....

Nice.

 

[Leslie]

*would like to politely request that we perhaps cease and desist with the pointless and hate-inciting abortion threads*

 

[MrBishop]

Maybe you should not take every thing on face value... and question and investigate before making snap decisions... as a pro-lifer surely thats your aim... why not follow your own advice!?

Love certainly has nothing to do with health and aesthetics although setting that aside it is often easier to understand why some women are forced to make the decision which is best for them.

There is also no need to arrogantly and agressively make assumptions about my RL and experiences...

I was simply stating that yes! Your children are happy and healthy... (you brought "loving" into the equation although I don't actually see its relevancy I was merely answering you in context)... but what if they were suffering from a disability that caused them the pain that is described in the above post?

Is it a real life for them? If you love them could you stand it to see them suffer? Tell me what are your views on euthenasia?

And in connection with my "blind" comment... as a male you never get the chance to feel a baby move within you... you never breast feed... you don't get the physicality of parenthood. The decision concerning abortion isn't an easy one to make... it isn't a black and white issue!

The psychological and emotional problems that can be associated with actually giving birth to a very badly disabled or disfigured child... knowing you were its gateway to a life of probable (as you would believe in your emotional state!) suffering, torture, humiliation and frustration are legion... self loathing is just the tip of the iceberg. she will love the child but that guilt... if she isn't a strong person could do untold damage.



Now that is a shame... as someone who calls themself a "professur" ... a teacher? an educator? researcher? You make rash decisions very easily...

Why simply dismiss someone for not sharing the same ideas or values as you? Don't cover your ears... turn your back and walk away from the chance to explore other avenues of ideals...

And anyhoo... If we all had your attitude to discussion... I would NEVER pm you as you don't share my beliefs!

 

[MrBishop]

*would like to politely request that we perhaps cease and desist with the pointless and hate-inciting abortion threads*

Abortion is like sex. Eventually, most RL threads will fall back to a) the bible, b) sex, c) abortion, d) Reps vs.Dems (Libs vs. Cons) or e) "you're an idiot, no..you are!"

Sorry for bringing it up again. It was draggin another thread down.
Until people realize that pro-life and pro-choice are not polar-opposites, this BS will continue. :sigh:

 

[chcr]

Sorry for bringing it up again.

It's okay, Bish, we know you only do it because you're an idiot.
Per Leslie's sig: j/k

*Wonders what it makes me for responding.*

 

[MrBishop]

It's okay, Bish, we know you only do it because you're an idiot.
Per Leslie's sig: j/k

*Wonders what it makes me for responding.*

Great minds thinking alike?