Anti-abortionists

sam_fisher said:
so murder is ok with you? just think if somebody had killed you before you could speak, hear, or touch.

sam.
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see you veiw it as murder, I don't.

In fact in my relegion is is not even a human being (with a soul etc) until the child is born.
 
If someone had killed me before I could speak, hear, or touch - I don't think my opinion would matter much, eh? ;)

Your logic is based on "what if"s, and that just isn't very valid in this case. At least that's my take on it.

:shrug:
 
paul_valaru said:
see you veiw it as murder, I don't.

In fact in my relegion is is not even a human being (with a soul etc) until the child is born.
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really?they outlaw tattoos but abortion is okey doke?
 
Amazing how often the word Rape comes out when you're talking to Pro-Choicers. As for retardation, have a long talk with Aunty Em. She lives with that daily. She's the only one who's point of view I respect on the matter. But I've seen cases where retarded children get better. Through chemical treatments, therapy, and loving attention. If you make abortion the standard treatment for retardation ... well, what's your definition of retardation? IQ under 140? Soon could be. As for putting the mother's life at risk .... I beg your pardon, but that's damn few and far between. And it's a doctor advising. Not a mother walking into a clinic.
 
sam_fisher said:
i strongly disagree with you. think about it, you were once a feotus, would you want somebody murdering you before you before you had any say in the matter.
IMHO, abortion is murder. murder at any stage of pregnancy...

you're damn right i'm anit-abortionist...just think, one of those baby's who were aborted may have grown up to find the cure cancer or aids....and now we'll never know...
man cannot play the role of God.

sam.
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And God cannot play the role of man, which is why he gave us a little thing called a brain....I'm pretty sure he expects us to use it too. With that brain we are able to grasp concepts such as 'free will' - a little something extremely important to the Christian doctrine....the Big Man himself said so.

So, with that free will comes responsibilities - if you choose to have unprotected sex & become pregnant, deal with it - abortion's not a quick fix. However, if you become pregnant and it's a threat to your health or the child's or if ye were raped then abortion could be a plausible solution. And ye know what, God's a good oke really, not some kind of whip carrying guy just waiting for us to make mistakes so he can punish us, I reckon he'd understand the reasons.

And saying 'the child could have been the one to cure cancer' etc is typical religious emotional BS. Yeah he could have cured cancer....then again, that's what Hitler's mommy said about him. Thing is we can't base decisions that affect our lives so drammatically on overly emotional outbursts or what if's. In these type of situations rationality is best.

But anyway, you're entitled to your opinion.
 
Professur said:
Amazing how often the word Rape comes out when you're talking to Pro-Choicers. As for retardation, have a long talk with Aunty Em. She lives with that daily. She's the only one who's point of view I respect on the matter. But I've seen cases where retarded children get better. Through chemical treatments, therapy, and loving attention. If you make abortion the standard treatment for retardation ... well, what's your definition of retardation? IQ under 140? Soon could be. As for putting the mother's life at risk .... I beg your pardon, but that's damn few and far between. And it's a doctor advising. Not a mother walking into a clinic.
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That's why I said disgression adviced. I think the mental or physical retardation would have to be extremely severe. It's not something you can just lable as an iq. Like I said, I think abortion should be an absolute last resort. But it shouldn't be ruled out altogether. Women at risk far and few between? Good, that's abortions due to that nature far and few between which means less of them.

Rape being used by pro-choicers ... Um ... I don't even know where to start. I'm not sure what you mean. Have you known anyone raped and had to face the decision of whether or not to keep the child or not?
 
No. Actually All of the women I know who had abortions weren't raped at all. But every time I have a conversation with a pro choicer, rape always gets mentionned.
 
AlphaTroll said:
And God cannot play the role of man, which is why he gave us a little thing called a brain....I'm pretty sure he expects us to use it too. With that brain we are able to grasp concepts such as 'free will' - a little something extremely important to the Christian doctrine....the Big Man himself said so.
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God also gave us a soul from the second we're convieved.
so an unborn child doesn't deserve free will, his or her life not counted? just think about not being able to plea for your life before its taken from you...

sam.
 
I always liked the argument that the child would be better off dead than living with the mother. Or the handicap. Or at all.
 
Professur said:
Amazing how often the word Rape comes out when you're talking to Pro-Choicers. As for retardation, have a long talk with Aunty Em. She lives with that daily. She's the only one who's point of view I respect on the matter. But I've seen cases where retarded children get better. Through chemical treatments, therapy, and loving attention. If you make abortion the standard treatment for retardation ... well, what's your definition of retardation? IQ under 140? Soon could be. As for putting the mother's life at risk .... I beg your pardon, but that's damn few and far between. And it's a doctor advising. Not a mother walking into a clinic.
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So Prof, you saying my opinion would only be valid if I was raped & got pregnant from it? And yeah, rape is a common discussion point for pro-choicers, but then the religious garbage warbled out by anit-abortionists can be mind boggling at times. And my definition of retardation is not something like Downe's or autism, it's more along the lines of the child not ever being able to really live....barely above the point of being like an animal and in some cases worse (I know it sounds harsh, but I've seen it and I've seen what having such a child can do to a family....the total unconditional love vs remorse vs anger vs guilt, it's a never ending emotional rollercoaster and unfortunately the child in question has no idea) - it can tear families apart and I think the worst for the mom is watching her child suffer through it every day.
 
Ah. I can tell you why I mention it. I've already referenced her, and we'll call her April, as that's her name. She was molested as a child - a mere 12 years old. Got pregnant. As a child yourself, you shouldn't even be forced to think about such things. Her father passed away when she was 9, and her oldest brother did soon after, leaving her and one older brother with their alcoholic mom. April, at the tender age of 12, had to study her choices carefully. Bring this child in the world or abort? Fortunately this was quite some years ago and abortion wasn't a major factor. She decided to keep the child. Gave birth at age 13. She's still just a child herself.

So now you have this child bringing another child into the world. She can't support it. Her mom can't support it. And when she graduates from high school - her child will be starting first grade.

If you want to know the end - she did have the baby. Gave birth to a beautiful son. I don't know if she made the right choice, and it's not mine to make or question anyway. She kept her son for six months, but realized there was no way she could provide a life for him. She ended up giving him for adoption.

Was it better that she had the child and then let him up for adoption? Or should she have aborted? Doesn't matter now - what's done is done. And he is a fine human being, as is she.

I guess now I'm just rambling. But I swear there was reasoning ...
 
there is just no perfect solution to this problem...some say it's wrong...some say it isn't...some say for this and some say for that...it's a heady issue....but if abortions are illegal they will still happen...with direg gresults at times. i have no stomach for abortion and i cannot conceive of what situation would lead me to that decision...but i respect the rights of other women to make this decision for themselves...because it's her business...and her partner if he is around...and god....i prefer to let him handle that condemning shit...goes against my christian nature :p
 
sam_fisher said:
God also gave us a soul from the second we're convieved.
so an unborn child doesn't deserve free will, his or her life not counted? just think about not being able to plea for your life before its taken from you...

sam.
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Dude, it's a foetus. It has no concept of pain, life, or anything at all. If it doesn't know it has a life - how can it plead for it?

All your arguments seem to be founded in emotion and playing the 'imagine this was you' card.......got anything else up yer sleeve?
 
AlphaTroll said:
Dude, it's a foetus. It has no concept of pain, life, or anything at all. If it doesn't know it has a life - how can it plead for it?

All your arguments seem to be founded in emotion and playing the 'imagine this was you' card.......got anything else up yer sleeve?
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Try this. If you injure me, I can sue you for potential lost earnings. I might have lost my job tomorrow. Doesn't matter. What about the child's potential?
 
its just distrubing to me to see children aborted everyday. and people talking about animal rights...damn....

sam.
 
Sam - you have a point. And I'm sure an "animal rights" thread would open a whole can of worms here. :D


I guess I dont' see how people can say it's 100% wrong and keep their mind closed. :shrug:
 
Your potential worth is based on past earnings, level of education and how long you could have forseeably kept on working. (and contributing to the government's coffers, which is why they make such laws - if you lose your earning potential it means they have to pay you welfare and so on....quick solution is for them to make me pay - that way I cough up double and their pockets stay nicely lined).

What would you base the potential of a foetus on?
 
AlphaTroll said:
Dude, it's a foetus. It has no concept of pain, life, or anything at all. If it doesn't know it has a life - how can it plead for it?
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what do you base this on? do you know? are you basing this on the fact you once were a foetus?



AlphaTroll said:
All your arguments seem to be founded in emotion and playing the 'imagine this was you' card.......got anything else up yer sleeve?
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it could have been me, you or anybody here.....and yes i have something else up my sleeve..its acually between both my sleeves...its called a heart.

sam.
 
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