Armaggedon - a simple affair

[chcr]

My problem is that pretty much everything I can think of that could really put civilization (for want of a better word ) that far back would probably kill all the larger life forms (this means you and me). Gato makes a good point. I could survive without a lot of modern conveniences. Wouldn't like it much, but I wouldn't starve or anything.

 

[MrBishop]

My problem is that pretty much everything I can think of that could really put civilization (for want of a better word ) that far back would probably kill all the larger life forms (this means you and me). Gato makes a good point. I could survive without a lot of modern conveniences. Wouldn't like it much, but I wouldn't starve or anything.

It's not the lack of technology that'd do most people in...it's other people. Push people hard enough and they push back, put enough strain on them and eventually, they'll crack.

Take away all the modern conveniences and tech...make people scrounge for their food, and fight for their own survival, then surround them with thousands of others trying to do the same, with limited resources...and all it needs is a spark. BOOM!!!

Survive the first few booms...and (like Gonz and Cammy have said) humans would survive, and build back up again... but it would only take a few short weeks to knock our society back a few generations worth of progress.

 

[Luis G]

I wanted to reply in another direction but I just can't seem to get past what you said there. I patently refuse to accept that premise.

With few exceptions, mankind can, has & will makes its way. We've lived far closer to barbarism for far longer than the reverse. It's easier to live in hordes where individuals can specialize but if and/or when we lose the ability to care for ourselves, in singles or immediate family member groups only, then we, as a species, are dead.

I think you misunderstood the statement, what I understood from it is that men can survive if they form groups, if you break such groups and leave each man by himself he'll be most likely dead man.

We all need some kind of civilization, organization, community or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Gonz]

I still disagree. Well, kind of disagree. It would completely depend upon a time frame. Humans do not need groups settings in order to live. We need them in order to advance. Many many individuals & families (man, woman & children) have survived, alone, for long periods of isolation. Living in groups just makes certain tasks easier, and in some cases-possible, but man doesn't need the group.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Most starchy/carbohydrate foods can be readily scrounged from the foliage. Meat, or protien from fish will of course be necessary.....but hunting often forces one to use more calories than the food caught will supply and fishing is a tenuose venture at best (even building fish traps is pretty hit and miss) so your best source of protien are insects and other inveterbrates. Sounds gross, but earthworms, beetles, ants etc are a readily available source of protien when you need to survive in the wild for an extended period of time (hope y'all ain't eating lunch while reading this ).

Cooking utensils are nice, but not necessary.....skewer food on sticks to slow roast, or if you find yourself in arable land dig a little and find clay.......simply wrap any food in the clay and bake it in the fire (hedgehog is particularly good, as the clay hardens and removes the spines while it bakes)....clay baking also ensures that esential nutrients etc are baked into the food, instead of being burned off or evaporating.

Lighting fires is also overlooked, of course matches/lighters, and flint and steel are a must......but a lense of some description (or a friend who wears glasses) will be handy in the long term.....tis very easy to start a fire with a bit of sunlight, a lens and some shavings from a silver birch bark (the bark is very rich in sulphor.....goes up like a firework)

Fishing is tenuous? Bite your tongue, man. Not only does it keep you from wasting calories, it relaxes you as well. As for catching/hunting other game, it's not as hard as you may think. Dangerous, maybe, but not all that difficult if you use your noggin. You also forgot small lizards and birds (still in the nest). There's also the occasional family 'pet' which could be used as a food supply. Don't get disgusted just yet...pets are trusting.

 

[Oz]

Fishing is tenuous? Bite your tongue, man. Not only does it keep you from wasting calories, it relaxes you as well. As for catching/hunting other game, it's not as hard as you may think. Dangerous, maybe, but not all that difficult if you use your noggin. You also forgot small lizards and birds (still in the nest). There's also the occasional family 'pet' which could be used as a food supply. Don't get disgusted just yet...pets are trusting.

The trouble is with fishing is that there is no gaurantee that you'll catch anything......yer can sit, still getting hungry as you do, catch nothin' and don't eat Fish traps are much more efficient.

Catching/hunting other game is easy enough, but if you have no transport then you need to do this sparing........start hunting regularly as your only source of meat and you'll soon find you've exhausted it......those you don't exhaust will move on, birds can fly........we can't Critters like rabbits breed pretty well.......but one man, eating one rabbit per week will soon decimate a warren.

Family pets? Yup, a good source of comfort in times of plenty and a good source of food in tougher times ...... eat em first, no point in feeding them for a period of time

 

[Gato_Solo]

The trouble is with fishing is that there is no gaurantee that you'll catch anything......yer can sit, still getting hungry as you do, catch nothin' and don't eat Fish traps are much more efficient.

Catching/hunting other game is easy enough, but if you have no transport then you need to do this sparing........start hunting regularly as your only source of meat and you'll soon find you've exhausted it......those you don't exhaust will move on, birds can fly........we can't Critters like rabbits breed pretty well.......but one man, eating one rabbit per week will soon decimate a warren.

Family pets? Yup, a good source of comfort in times of plenty and a good source of food in tougher times ...... eat em first, no point in feeding them for a period of time

I've yet to leave out on a fishing trip, and come back empty handed. Perhaps I'm just lucky...or the fish that live near me are stupid... As for your 'birds fly', I'll give you that...birds do fly...but chicks can't. One chick can give you a day's protein...and you don't need to bother the rabbits. There's also squirrels, chipmunks, rats, mice...you get the picture. Larger game is also workable...if you know how. Most deer only dress out to around 100 pounds. Enough for at least 2 months if you store it right. Longer if you make jerky...and it doesn't take a big gun to kill it, either. Most folks could even figure out how to make their own bow and arrows with the right book in front of them. It's not as hard as you think. At least...not in the Americas.

 

[Oz]

I've yet to leave out on a fishing trip, and come back empty handed. Perhaps I'm just lucky...or the fish that live near me are stupid... As for your 'birds fly', I'll give you that...birds do fly...but chicks can't. One chick can give you a day's protein...and you don't need to bother the rabbits. There's also squirrels, chipmunks, rats, mice...you get the picture. Larger game is also workable...if you know how. Most deer only dress out to around 100 pounds. Enough for at least 2 months if you store it right. Longer if you make jerky...and it doesn't take a big gun to kill it, either. Most folks could even figure out how to make their own bow and arrows with the right book in front of them. It's not as hard as you think. At least...not in the Americas.

I think yer've missed my point dude

All hunting is a waste of valuable energy (unless you find yourself in an area absolutely teeming with wildlife obviously) One of the first things I was taught is that you don't actively persue your game, you trap it Rabbit snares, fish traps, pits for larger game etc etc. Usually as much chance of catching something with a large spread of traps as with spending all day wandering around with a gun and at a fraction of the energy expenditure (even those tasty lil' insects don't need to be dug for after you've spent just one hour digging a hole and lining it with plastic, they slide it, but can't crawl out ). Traps are much less likely to exhaust your wildlife population as well....as you can choose where to place the traps you can manage your game so as to not overhunt an area (rotation system in a circumferance of your campsite). Chicks? Yup, good point.......but many birds will abandon a nesting site if it has been touched by humans......so you may have chicks for one season.....but none after that I think it would be better to treat fowl as an occasional treat, not a constant supply of meat.

Rodents? Excellent point! (I read a fantastic book about how many japanese prisoners survived on rats while held in military prisons) . Plentyfull, easy to catch and if you can catch a mating pair.......yer laughing all the way to the larder

 

[Gato_Solo]

I think yer've missed my point dude

Rodents? Excellent point! (I read a fantastic book about how many japanese prisoners survived on rats while held in military prisons) . Plentyfull, easy to catch and if you can catch a mating pair.......yer laughing all the way to the larder

Did you know that rabbits are a variety of rodent? Just have to be careful with rats...they tend to eat the same things people do...but they may also add a bit of human to their diet if pressed... :eek4:

 

[catocom]

Did you know that rabbits are a variety of rodent? Just have to be careful with rats...they tend to eat the same things people do...but they may also add a bit of human to their diet if pressed... :eek4:

I'm surprised at what some people in this area eat.
In the lake, out front here, there are big logger-head snapping turtles.
Some people love to eat them. I couldn't bring myself to, but if it
came to survival....
possums, squrrels... crow, qualls...
fish (like even Carp), turtles, ... and that's just the meats

24 hours is probably a realistic estimate in the population centers. Out in the country, where folks do tend to raise their own food and know how to do a larger variety of self-sufficiency tasks, it'll take longer...at least until the city folks come out there to pillage.

Of course, given the other tendency of those rural folks to keep firearms, it'll turn into quite the fireworks show at that point.

that sounds like me. I'd just head towards the mountians.
*pats trusty little 20gauge.*

 

[Gato_Solo]

I'm surprised at what some people in this area eat.
In the lake, out front here, there are big logger-head snapping turtles.
Some people love to eat them. I couldn't bring myself to, but if it
came to survival....
possums, squrrels... crow, qualls...
fish (like even Carp), turtles, ... and that's just the meats

that sounds like me. I'd just head towards the mountians.
*pats trusty little 20gauge.*

Wimp. *Pats trusty little M-16...* Guns are nice for hunting, but, eventually, you will run out of bullets, and, even if you do your own reloads, chemicals to make your primer. A good bow is almost perfect for a post-apocalyptic world...mostly because, with practice, you can make your own arrows. Trapping, like Oz inferred, is not quite as labor-intensive as hunting, but lugging all those snares and such around is bound to take it's toll. All you really need is a climbable cliff, and some skittish game, and you've a feast fit for a town.

 

[Gonz]

hehe, I just bought this last week

bow

 

[Gato_Solo]

hehe, I just bought this last week

A bit complicated innit? I was thinking more along the lines of this

or this...

You have laser sights and rocket-assisted arrows, too?

 

[Oz]

Blech.......all yer need is branch from a Yew tree and some straight willow wands (bit of twine is helpfull as well of course)

Unless yer planning on rhinocerous for dinner of course

 

[Gonz]

You have laser sights and rocket-assisted arrows, too?

Why, I can see & fire without assistance. I just hate hiking after the "I don't know I'm dead yet" critters

My son has a compound and a recurve (stupid LOTR movie)

 

[catocom]

yep I do also have a long bow around here somewhere,
not as fancy as the on it that pic Goto. It will get the job done though.
As I'm sure you know and briefly stated, the foot work, and planing
are half the battle.
The gun would just mainly be the last ditch effort.
Booby traps would be 'my' first priority. (setting up the perimeter)

 

[Gonz]

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, we hunted deer. In opposition to the way they do in the midwest (treestands) we actually stalked our game. A 30.06, scoped & 1/2 mile were enough to almost guarantee dinner. Upon imediate gutting & dragging of the carcass, it often almost meant instant heart attack. Mountain peaks, hi-calibre rifles & old men-a lethal combination.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Blech.......all yer need is branch from a Yew tree and some straight willow wands (bit of twine is helpfull as well of course)

Unless yer planning on rhinocerous for dinner of course

You may be large enough to carry a long-bow through a forested area, but I'm only 5'9" tall. A proper longbow usually goes between 6 feet and 7 feet in length. Nice for battle, but not so good for lugging through the brush. Besides...a 45# recurve is just about perfect for anything you may get in your sights.

 

[Oz]

You may be large enough to carry a long-bow through a forested area, but I'm only 5'9" tall. A proper longbow usually goes between 6 feet and 7 feet in length. Nice for battle, but not so good for lugging through the brush. Besides...a 45# recurve is just about perfect for anything you may get in your sights.

I'm only 5'10 meself dude

*imagines himself trying to sneak through overgrown woodland with a seven ft bow and a dodgy quiver full of arrows*

You have a very valid point there

 

[catocom]

eh, my bow is about six foot, and I i'm exactly 6.
when you need to "cut and run" turn the bow sideways, and it's only about a foot high. (you just have to be careful about turning sharply)