China sub secretly stalked U.S. fleet

highwayman

highwayman

New Member
This story is almost humorous...Two questions come to mind..
1-The location of the battle group is not mentioned..

2-Why had the sub surfaced as close as it had to the battle group..

My opinion is that this was put out top increase circulation of the paper...



http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061113-121539-3317r.htm
A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.
The surprise encounter highlights China's continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing's communist-ruled military.
Click to expand...
 
the Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine
Click to expand...
Oh yea, that carrier group was real surprised. Wanna bet they've been tracking the sub for weeks for shits & giggles.
 
Between 2002 and last year, China built 14 new submarines, including new Song-class vessels and several other types, both diesel- and nuclear-powered.
Click to expand...

1) Because the exact location of a fleet is supposed to be secret.
2) To show that they could do it and not take their tech for granted.
 
Gonz said:
Oh yea, that carrier group was real surprised. Wanna bet they've been tracking the sub for weeks for shits & giggles.
Click to expand...

No doupt about it..
The sonar they have today can count how many times the captain of the boat farts when he shits...
 
I'd be very interested to know how the Warshington Post knows the firing range of Chinese torps.

For the record, I know a thing or two about subs, and warships. A sub spends it's time trying to stay quiet and not attract attention to itself. Therefore it uses passive sonar almost exclusively. Basically, listening to whatever other noise is in the water. A carrier group has about as stealthy a sound footprint as my neighbour's civic, with it's 5 million watt subwoofer, and therefore spends it's time using active sonar. And more than a few destroyers and patrol boats circle that group, probing it's blind spots (aka it's noise wake). Active is much better at tracking down quiet, and stationary targets. It's only real limit is depth.

Therefore, it's much more likely that this sub got in front of the group, stayed low, and only popped up once they were past, probably right in the line of fire of a patrol boat.
 
Professur said:
Therefore, it's much more likely that this sub got in front of the group, stayed low, and only popped up once they were past, probably right in the line of fire of a patrol boat.
Click to expand...


Keep in mind the story states that it had been a diesel powered sub, not nuclear. That means when submerged it's speed it limited to the battery charge not to mention the duration of the dive before it needs to surface to charge batterys.

A diesel powered sub would not be able to keep up with a battle group, unless the chinese had a string of them in the area, which is likely...

Professur said:
I'd be very interested to know how the Warshington Post knows the firing range of Chinese torps.
Click to expand...

They could have picked up generic information at this sight or another similar one that has the military capibilities of countries...

Warning, sight does have audio when first opened..
http://www.janes.com/
 
When the US floated their newest sub class (seawolf) it's declared submerged speed was listed at 25 knots. And interview with it's trials captain stated .... "that's it's declared speed", suggesting that 25 knots is nowhere near the actual speed it's capable of making.

That said .... a diesel is capable of keeping pace with a carrier group ... unless that group is enroute somewhere at speed. Dash speed for a sub is more than equal to cruise speed for fuel tankers in a fleet. Doing it undetected, on the other hand .... not happening.

Like I said, played possum submerged and popped up. Only way they got close. There wasn't a stalk involved. Not to mention the life expectancy of a ship doing that close enough to get off an unintercepted shot is about 12 seconds. Long enough to get a salvo off, but that's all. You're not gonna make it home, and anti sub defence in a group severely limits the chances that one salvo is gonna do squat anyhow. Further out where you might get off a second load, you're leaving too much time for interceptors. Patrol boats and destroyers carry anti torp weapons and are charged with getting between the enemy and the carriers.


Frankly, too much of this doesn't make sense to me. No sub capt'n is gonna give himself away like this. Least of all to a carrier group. Even in peace time, a sub surfacing with weapon's range is a free target. Even the UN would have to side with the US if they put her on the bottom for that.
 
Professur said:
When the US floated their newest sub class (seawolf) it's declared submerged speed was listed at 25 knots. And interview with it's trials captain stated .... "that's it's declared speed", suggesting that 25 knots is nowhere near the actual speed it's capable of making.
Click to expand...

That is no big surprise, the last cruise I was on the ship I was on was plane guarding the Nimitz, at the time the Nimitz class carrier had a "declared" top speed of 30 knots plus. During flight opps the Destroyer I was on tried to keep up and at 29 knots the Nimitz did not walk away it ran away...
 
Nimitz was a nasty bastard, tho. Not like the old Independance. Nimitz keeps getting those plant upgrades. One of these days it's gonna hit something under water and it's not even gonna slow down until it's peeled the entire keel off.
 
Professur said:
Even the UN would have to side with the US if they put her on the bottom for that.
Click to expand...

The fact that it was "undetected" & that a newspaper got this info, plus the abve quote, says there's much, much more to this story. The Chinese are itching to get in a pissing match but they are not stupid.
 
The top speed for a diesel sub is quote well known...especially since the US doesn't use them any more. ;) The newest diesel sub has a listed top speed of 14 kts while submerged. Even if it's double, it still is too slow to sneak up on an actively-searching battle group. Trouble is, you have to be actively searching. Modern diesels are not as noisy as some would like to believe...
 
Yes, diesel subs are extremely stealthy when using only their electric motors. They have the advantage that they don't leave nearly the heat signature that a nuclear sub does. Even when a nuclear sub is in silent running, it still has to cool the reactor.
 
Despite all modern detecting parafernalia, it's usual still on naval exercises to see subs coming out of nowhere undetected to hit surface vessels. I read a brazilian IKL-209 is said to have "sunk" the Spanish Carrier "Prince of Asturias" on an exercise, totally undetected.
Still there is the m0odern AIP(Air Independent Propulsion) systems that allow a conventional sub to keep submerged and undetected for much more time these days, though is arguable if the chinese have the technology to make them...
 
RDX said:
Yes, diesel subs are extremely stealthy when using only their electric motors. They have the advantage that they don't leave nearly the heat signature that a nuclear sub does. Even when a nuclear sub is in silent running, it still has to cool the reactor.
Click to expand...

Also the diesel sub does not have a reduction gear for propulsion, making it that much quieter...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top