Crap!! U.S. life span shorter

spike said:
So protection from the biggest killers of our citizens is at least as important as protection from lesser threats like crime and fire.
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Let's assume we agree on your argument, for the moment.

Good. Now we're on an even playing field.

Alright....healthcare, which in the historical reference is a newcomer to mankinds tale. However, man NEEDS food. Man needs shelter. So, why not have the government establish the right to a free home & provide free food. Those two things will do more the ensure we get all the things we need for free wich will lower stress which would probably make heart disease a thing of the past.

Food & shelter are far more important to the average citizen & I don't think they should get them for free. Do you?
 
When I had my motorcycle accident, I received a $50,000 settlement from the insurance company. That got blown after a helicopter ride and two weeks in the hospital. About $20,000 in bills I couldn’t cover were paid for by the State of Utah, and another $1,500 forgiven by another hospital that was “non-profit”.

My wife and kids spent the first 8 years of our marriage receiving free health care from the government (Medicaid).

The day I finally started making enough money to pay for my own insurance (well, with a hefty contribution by my employer) was one of the proudest days of my life. However, I'm forever grateful for the free health care the U.S. government gave my family during the time I was unable to.

Several of my in-laws (along with a majority of their friends) are high school drop outs and chronic job jumpers (thus spending a significant amount of time unemployed) and have spent most of their lives on Medicaid. From my view, free health care is alive and well in America, as long as you're poor or too lazy to get a decent job.

I'm not sure what's going on in the rest of the nation, but for me to get free health care (I won’t bother going into how the gov has also paid for all my college education as well as my wife’s) all I had to do was visit the local Fed. Gov. office and fill out some paperwork. The only qualifier as far as I could tell is you had to be "poor". I was astonished at how easy it was, and frankly, I sometimes miss it because these days I actually have to pay for my insurance. But I don't ever want to go back to it as a matter of pride (being self sufficient and all).

I’ll admit to not being educated about the health care system in America. All I know is that it has never been a problem for me (or my not so motivated in laws) to get it free.
 
Gonz said:
So, why not have the government establish the right to a free home & provide free food.
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We already have government subsidized housing, food stamps, and WIC.

My GF had a great job for many years that provided decent insurance. However due to health issues (possibly brought on or accelerated by her work conditions) she had to quit and has no health insurance and expensive medications to buy.

One of her prescriptions ran out so she can't even get some of the medication she needs right now. She has applied for Medicaid and Social Security but is getting the run around and has not been aproved yet.

Let's assume she eventually gets approved for Medicaid. Even though she could still work part-time, if her monthly income exceeds $856 she will lose the Medicaid which encourages people with health issues to be poor.

She's tried to buy her own insurance but got turned down because of her health issues (brilliant eh?).

I will be able to get her on my insurance through work but do to a current buyout of my compay the current owners dropped our insurance and the new owners won't be providing it until the purchase is complete which could take months.

In the meantime if my GF has to go back to the hospital for a week or so like the last time we will certainly be bankrupted.

I can't believe anyone can defend this system.
 
spike said:
I can't believe anyone can defend this system.
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Actually I think if people like Gonz had their way there'd be no medicaid for people who are disabled and can't work at all. If you got disabled and didn't have insurance of savings then too damn bad. Go ask for charity at a church, and please when you beg on the street don't do it where people have to see you. Right Gonz?
 
spike said:
We already have government subsidized housing, food stamps, and WIC.
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Why not ALL of us?

spike said:
One of her prescriptions ran out so she can't even get some of the medication she needs right now.
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Go buy your girlfriend her medicine you cheap bastard. She's not my girlfriend.

spike said:
She's tried to buy her own insurance but got turned down because of her health issues (brilliant eh?).
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Did you flunk, or just not take, a course in finance.

spike said:
In the meantime if my GF has to go back to the hospital for a week or so like the last time we will certainly be bankrupted.

I can't believe anyone can defend this system.
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Her health problems just popped up last week? You (and she) didn't have time to prepare & save?

The reason you work, sparky, is to pay your own way. To make arrangements for inevitibilities-especially ones that you know about.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

markjs said:
Actually I think if people like Gonz had their way there'd be no medicaid for people who are disabled and can't work at all. If you got disabled and didn't have insurance of savings then too damn bad. Go ask for charity at a church, and please when you beg on the street don't do it where people have to see you. Right Gonz?
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The church method worked for the first 175 years. Then the do-gooders went & broke it.

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798
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Gonz I hope and pray some day you are disabled can't work, exhaust your savings and get denied social security. Then you might really know what it's like You make me sick.
 
James Madison
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents...
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Self, family, friends, church, government.

The order in which you seek help.
 
Gonz said:
Why not ALL of us?
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It is available to all of us when needed. Even unemployment money was available to you when you needed it.

I suppose if your neighborhood catches on fire or your kid is kidnapped you should be sent the bill. It's not my house or my kid.

In fact if you don't have any spare cash at the moment why even look for your kid?

Go buy your girlfriend her medicine you cheap bastard. She's not my girlfriend.
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We just stocked up in Mexico, I know you read that thread. Did you notice in the text you quoted how one of her prescriptions had run out and we can't even buy one of the things she needs?

Did you flunk, or just not take, a course in finance.
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How would a course in finance help her get health insurance exactly? I actually was a business major for a little while and it helps me see why it makes sense to deny insurance to people with health problems insurance as it wouldn't be profitable....much more money in being inhuman.

Her health problems just popped up last week? You (and she) didn't have time to prepare & save?
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For many people problems just did pop up last week. Sure they are screwed even harder than we are for sure.

Her problems started a couple years ago and just got worse. Yes, we've been saving like crazy (hopefully to put towards a house) and have about 50k. That's much more than most could do in a few years (could you?).

How many weeks in the hospital does that buy me sparky?

The reason you work, sparky, is to pay your own way. To make arrangements for inevitibilities-especially ones that you know about.
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She was working and paying her own way. Tell me please, what other arrangements could we have made or can we make now? I'm very serious and also very scared.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
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She's incredibly responsible for herself. She got a tough engineering degree and ran an entire plant that was extremely profitable. Most of you (including me) can't even conceive of being as responsible as she is.

Ravaged by health problems through no fault of her own she absolutely does not deserve to be treated like this. She does not deserve to die over money or profit. She deserves the best treatment possible.

The church method worked for the first 175 years. Then the do-gooders went & broke it.
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The church method NEVER worked worth a crap and constantly left tons of people to the wolves who should have had better. Go ahead and link up some info showing how well the church method worked or just shut it.
 
I like how you glide around the free housing & free food for all argument.

My son had a quarter million worth dollars worth of medical work in his first 6 months of life. Don't talk to me about not understanding. We had 2.5 months to scrape up the deductibles & we both paid for insurance. We saw a problem & we took advantage of what was available. Personal responsibility.

DESERVE to be treated like what?
This is a little too personal, I understand that. I'm not discussing YOUR girlfriend. I'm discussing a generic situation.

The medical profession didn't say "that one there"., "the one in the red dress?". "yea, her-let's really put the screws to her". The system has worked for generations. Once the HMO's came along-turning personal responsibility into a $5.00 co-pay, we, as a people, got goofy. The need for care & the treatment options skyrocketed. Instead of saying "I'm not feeling well" & taking a day off work, we called in sick, went to the doc in a box & got some useless medication. It cost $8.50, including gas.
We don't need the government providing, maintaining, encouraging, discouraging or interfering with our medical treatment. It's failing elsewhere-it'll fail here. Communism has never worked & it won't work now.

Take the money you have on hand and find a solution. There's one available (again, I don't know your specifics). You just have to work for it instaed of asking for it.

Go ahead and link up some info showing how well the church method worked or just shut it.
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It worked until somebody wanted the government involved. That took about 175 years. Proof enough.
 
agreed with a BUT(T)...

churchy can only go so far - at this point society is entirely too complex and mobile for folks at the local church to understand who is truly needy and deserves help and who's just a handout-seeking asshole. so, assuming there is any kind of help that should be given... other options would need to be explored.

"they bought their tickets. they knew what they were getting into... i say, let 'em crash."
 
So you're all killing yourselves by stuffing yourselves with cheap heart disease and stroke inducing fast foods, taking no exercise and monging out in front of TV's and computers... and most of you are FAT... do I care? Not really, I'm just glad I don't live there or I'd probably have died not long ago... LOL
 
Gonz said:
I like how you glide around the free housing & free food for all argument.
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I answered you. Although you keep skipping my questions.

My son had a quarter million worth dollars worth of medical work in his first 6 months of life. Don't talk to me about not understanding. We had 2.5 months to scrape up the deductibles & we both paid for insurance. We saw a problem & we took advantage of what was available. Personal responsibility.
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What personal responsibility? You paid a small fraction of his bill and left others to foot the rest. We're just looking for the same treatment.

DESERVE to be treated like what?
This is a little too personal, I understand that. I'm not discussing YOUR girlfriend. I'm discussing a generic situation.

The medical profession didn't say "that one there"., "the one in the red dress?". "yea, her-let's really put the screws to her".
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Nope, she wasn't singled out. I'm sure many others get screwed even worse.

It's failing elsewhere-it'll fail here.
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The only evidence in this thread so far is that universal health care is working better elsewhere than out system is here.

Take the money you have on hand and find a solution. There's one available (again, I don't know your specifics). You just have to work for it instaed of asking for it.
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Thanks for the BS vote of confidence. Yes, we'll find a solution even if we have to work much harder or have our finances damaged more than than people much less responsible than her. Hopefully we'll have a candidate in office soon that will work on a better system.

It worked until somebody wanted the government involved. That took about 175 years. Proof enough.
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You declaring it worked is not the same as proof. It did not work. If you could show some info on how pandering to religious nuts for your healthcare problems led to less disease, longer lifespans, and less people going without the care they needed then go ahead and link it up.

Otherwise you need to just quit making incorrect statements and presenting them as facts.
 
spike said:
I answered you. Although you keep skipping my questions.
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You sidestepped my question.



spike said:
What personal responsibility? You paid a small fraction of his bill and left others to foot the rest. We're just looking for the same treatment.
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We saw a problem & we took advantage of what was available.
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Not one cent came from another who was forced to pay. A socialist co-op system. The government didn't pay a dime.
 
Gonz said:
You sidestepped my question.
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I thought it was answered fully. If you want more of an answer here's a list of questions of mine that you have completely ignored. It would be less hypocritical if you addressed those before complaining further.

  1. So would you like to put fire and police departments in the private sector and have them operate on a for-profit basis where they turn down calls that they can't make money off of instead of looking out for the health and safety of citizens?
  2. Do you have any actual data that supports what you say?
  3. I suppose if your neighborhood catches on fire or your kid is kidnapped you should be sent the bill. It's not my house or my kid. In fact if you don't have any spare cash at the moment why even look for your kid?
  4. How would a course in finance help her get health insurance exactly?
  5. How many weeks in the hospital does that buy me sparky?
  6. Tell me please, what other arrangements could we have made or can we make now?
  7. You declaring it worked is not the same as proof. It did not work. If you could show some info on how pandering to religious nuts for your healthcare problems led to less disease, longer lifespans, and less people going without the care they needed then go ahead and link it up.

We saw a problem & we took advantage of what was available.
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Taking advantage of a system that was available does not equate to personal responsibility anymore than someone taking advantage of welfare because it "was available" does.

Fact is other people took responsibility for the bulk of your sons medical expenses. My girlfriend has certainly earned equal consideration.
 
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