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It's people like you who have encouraged government meddling into our private lives and the erosion of our Constitutional rights.

"Hey what's the harm we'll get them back later probably".
 
Gonz said:
It's people like you that have allowed this massive governmental expansion into our personal lives as well as into the private sector.

Shit like "what's the harm?" "Hey, it'll help", "Somebody needs to pay for it".

What's the harm?

Here


Ideology & it's enforcers keep this country afloat. Rolling over & playing dead is what keeps us going in the toilet. Too bad ideology is losing because that means we all are.
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gonz, shut up. i didn't "allow" anything. government and business have worked together in many ways for a very long time. since well before even you was hatched. so can your bullshit moralizing.

here's a news flash. you're not a valiant hero fighting the evil overstepping government. you've never stopped any of this mysterious government intrusion. you're some guy who lives in indiana. a little person, just like the rest of us.
 
2minkey said:
yes, gato, defense is kinda goverment stuff, isn't it?

apparently you'd rather try to needle me than think about what the largest sources of innovation have been in this country historically. and those sources have been just as much gov as private.

what was YOUR point?
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Article 1, section 8 was my point. Defense spending must be allocated by Congress. Everything else is a crap-shoot. As to your paragraph on innovation, you are a little off. Private enterprise has always been more innovative than government.
 
private enterprise is more innovative than government. okay. what kind of innovation are you talking about? simple hardware stuffs? organizational and work system innovation?

how about the US highway system. what would you call that? how would you describe its economic impact?
 
Gonz said:
Stand & fight or die cowering in your own shit.
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wow. big words. think you could teach little old me how to be a hero, too?

i've got a TV and a sofa. that seems like the starting point for your method. what next?
 
I'm completely able to be self-sufficient. I'm already doing things that make me so. You?
 
I think the radical right should go invade North Dakota, and become their own completely independent nation. The radical left can take South Dakota, make them two sovereign nations and let the rest of us, (the sane ones) get on with life. Plus they will share a border, so it will make prolonged meaningless warfare possible to stimulate there economies.

Think of all the crazy ass reality TV industry that would be BOOMING there!
 
Gonz said:
I'm completely able to be self-sufficient. I'm already doing things that make me so. You?
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yes, i'm sure you're really self sufficient every time you pick up your paycheck from the man.

you produce all your own consumables? wow. you must a farmer, a metallurgist, a chemist, and, well, fuck, just about everything else.

okay. you're "doing things." please share. maybe then i can get an idea of what the fuck you're talking about, and share my "doing things?"

you take a simple discussion about innovation and turn it into some kinda blood oath to machismo self-reliance. you're really a unique and fascinating creature.

Rambo-sideshow-2.jpg
 
2minkey said:
private enterprise is more innovative than government. okay. what kind of innovation are you talking about? simple hardware stuffs? organizational and work system innovation?
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Simple hardware stuffs and organizational innovation.

2minkey said:
how about the US highway system. what would you call that? how would you describe its economic impact?
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The US Interstate system was mandated by Eisenhower in 1956 for rapid movement of troops across the US in case of invasion. The economic impact was a side-effect.
 
where do you think the modern factory system has its origins? what institutions were first able to aggregate and coordinate large groups of people? hmmm, i wonder.

yes, the highway system was a massive public works project. and i'm sure they were thinking of economic impact more than a little bit when they came up with the idea.

if you wanna stick to the caricature-of-itself ideological position that gonz has taken, that private industry heroes are the spewing fountain of everything cool, that's fine. you'd be ass wrong, but, hey, that's your choice.

people can be innovative in all kinds of organizational contexts. and many private companies are just as much of mausoleums as the worst cliche of a government bureaucracy that any flag-waving red-blooded capitalist hero motherfucker (who is typically also a wage laborer and knows nothing of how corporations are actually run) could ever blog about from his sofa in toledo.

:hangman:
 
Gato_Solo said:
Simple hardware stuffs and organizational innovation.



The US Interstate system was mandated by Eisenhower in 1956 for rapid movement of troops across the US in case of invasion. The economic impact was a side-effect.
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Quite true. Another fact is that it was specified that there must be one mile of straight road every five miles so that aircraft could use the roadway as a runway. The Eisenhower Highway System belongs to the federal government and the general populace may use it only for as long as the federal government allows its use. That permission can still be removed at any time.
 
2minkey said:
where do you think the modern factory system has its origins? what institutions were first able to aggregate and coordinate large groups of people? hmmm, i wonder.
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The modern factory system has its origins in the middle ages...mostly through the Catholic Church...and monarchy.

2minkey said:
yes, the highway system was a massive public works project. and i'm sure they were thinking of economic impact more than a little bit when they came up with the idea.
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Probably, but the bill wasn't written that way.

2minkey said:
if you wanna stick to the caricature-of-itself ideological position that gonz has taken, that private industry heroes are the spewing fountain of everything cool, that's fine. you'd be ass wrong, but, hey, that's your choice.

people can be innovative in all kinds of organizational contexts. and many private companies are just as much of mausoleums as the worst cliche of a government bureaucracy that any flag-waving red-blooded capitalist hero motherfucker (who is typically also a wage laborer and knows nothing of how corporations are actually run) could ever blog about from his sofa in toledo.

:hangman:
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So you're back to needling Gonz. ;)

Anyway...Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Graham Bell, Eli Whitney, heck...all of these folks...were working for a government when they were out tinkering, right? Besides...nobody ever said that the government held the only patent on bureaucracy and innovation. Nobody said that only the private sector had all of the innovation, either. Just that the governments money should be spent according to their contract with we, the people. (US Constitution for those who don't get it)
 
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