Critics and criticism...

[Winky]

I'm not worried.
I'm sure Hillary has a plan.

 

[Gato_Solo]

i realize you were responding to flav, but...

for me, at least, it's not the timing. i've been predicting almost exactly what has gone not exactly as planned by folks in the bush admin since before that evening three years ago when i sat in a shitty chinese restaurant in portland, watching those first "opportunity" air strikes against where they thought saddam was.

First rule of warfare. No plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

see, the thing is, i know a little bit about the middle east. let's see. i've read a few - say, three - books on the islamic world and a couple more on islam itself. i've had a course in urban conflict taught by a woman who spent several years in lebanon. and there's about six arab guys i got to know well enough to talk politics with, without anyone getting punched. so, more or less... i know a little bit about the middle east, but not what i'd call "a lot."

Most of what goes on here is illusion. If they think you've got two things, they tend to leave you alone. The first being a big stick, and the second being a will to use it. If you are perceived as soft, you invite attack. History has shown that process in the Middle East more often than not. That's why they don't have a full-scale war with Israel. They think Israel has nukes, and they think Israel will use them if they are attacked. That's why they get terrorist attacks instead of armed invasion.

and i saw what has happened coming.

it pains me to think that the idiots giving the orders, either
a) knew/know LESS about that area that I do(!)
b) knew, but disregarded that knowledge and just let the people on the ground i.e. YOU deal with the really fun stuff.

Option B is correct...and that happens in every war. Not just this one.

that makes rummy and his buddies
a) ignorant, or,
b) assholes, or, perhaps...
c) kinda both

When you are in that position, you are paid to make hard, and sometimes unpopular, decisions, and bring them up before the CC for implementation. Bosnia was no cakewalk, either...and I was there, too.

maybe you think it's all about six guys talking now, but for some of us, there's a bigger, longer picture that's much older than the emergence of the retired generals. so i don't really care about their motivation, whether it's opportunistic because of rummy's weakness or because they've realized that now people are willing to listen to alternatives instead of embracing some harebrained orthodoxy. or, maybe, c) kinda both.

It's never been about those six guys. It's about their credibility. Those same six people sat in positions of power, and said nothing when it started. They even helped plan this. If they were so against this,

1. Why didn't they leave earlier? Their retirement would've been safe, regardless...
2. Why did they wait until now to speak out? They have an agenda, and they are doing nothing but undermining the morale of the people they used to command.


As for the bigger, longer, picture, I have yet to see anyone with a plan coming forward except for the same plan that the UN was trying to back while they lined their pockets with kickbacks from the Oil for Food pogrom. That puts them in the spot that I listed above...only they have no big stick nor do they have the will to use the stick that they do have.

Finally, we should've invaded during the first gulf war, but
1. the fear of a large body count scared off most of our allies,
2. we didn't think we could accomplish the mission without them
3. we were worried that the Saudi's would leave us...

 

[2minkey]

great post. i don't agree with some of the points, exactly, but they are well made.