Death by stoning?!

[Jeslek]

saw a stoning video today, horrific! :mad2: if people did me that, and ghosts exist, god help their entire family line, cause i'd come back and kill every fucker :mad2:

Stoning is a cheap and traditional way of performing an execution. Yes it is horrific and painful. I doubt I would be able to sentence someone to death my stoning.

However, lethal injection is too graceful. I still think hanging or a firing squad is better, or the chair

know what? i don't care, people with values such as the extremist islam do not deserve to exist, nuke em, i'm physically sick here at the thought that such ideals exist in 2002, kill em, kill every fucking one of em...

That isn't very political correct ya know? Putting that on the side, I think a lot of people share that thought... (including me to *some* extent)

 

[Scanty]

know what? i don't care, people with values such as the extremist islam do not deserve to exist, nuke em, i'm physically sick here at the thought that such ideals exist in 2002, kill em, kill every fucking one of em... :mad2:

Was that supposed to be funny?

'People with values such as extremist islam do not deserve to exist... kill 'em...kill every fucking one of them...'

 

[Scanty]

However, lethal injection is too graceful. I still think hanging or a firing squad is better, or the chair

I've seen you say a few times before, LL, that something made you sick.

And i wouldn't say it unless I truly meant it...but...that comment made me feel physically ill.

I can't believe some of the views here.
I know it makes a lot of people angry to see and hear about groups of people who's ways are very different. I can't stand it either when I see people doing things that just don't seem to make sense. All in the name of religion or some kind of divine purpose, or whatever.

But can't you see that the views you're expressing now are just as subjective?
I'm reading stuff here, that is basically saying...your way is wrong and I'm right...so you should die.
We have a right to disagree, but can't you see that everything comes from some kind of human judgement? All we've got to go by are our own feelings. You may feel justified in saying that someone should die because of the terrible things that they did...but in the same way...they too feel 'justified' in doing what they think is right.

I'm not taking any single view... I just think you have to realise that when you express these passionate views and say people should die, you're only using your own impaired judgement same as they are.

 

[Justintime]

know what? i don't care, people with values such as the extremist islam do not deserve to exist, nuke em, i'm physically sick here at the thought that such ideals exist in 2002, kill em, kill every fucking one of em... :mad2:

Was that supposed to be funny?

'People with values such as extremist islam do not deserve to exist... kill 'em...kill every fucking one of them...'

I was not trying to be funny at all my dear, after i saw what i did (not only the stoning) i no longer have any symphaty for whatever may become of them, they treat women with no respect, laws are soso for them, only when something is to their advantage they abide by it,one example: woman who was sentenced to be shot to death was pardoned by her husbands family (she killed him) and thus was supposed to get a life sentence, instead, the Taliban decided that there was too much of a crowd and shot her anyways, even though its islamic law that she get life if the family pardoned her.

 

[Justintime]

that might include justin as well.....

sure i suck big time, i just feel that everyone should have a fair and free life, shoot me if i am wrong, i already stated, i hate the extremists and honestly believe they have no right to exist, same as they fucking believe they have the right to kill everyone they want and Alla will love and give them eternal life in heaven for doing that
The only solution to stop them is to fucking exterminate them in my book.

 

[Scanty]

Justin, I am not challenging your reasoning. The things you mentioned disgust me too.
It just sounds like you're only replacing one extremist view for another. The irony of you stating that you hate extremist views and then saying "kill 'em..."

But it looks from you're second post...

"...i hate the extremists and honestly believe they have no right to exist, same as they fucking believe they have the right to kill everyone they want and Alla will love and give them eternal life in heaven for doing that ."

...that you accept yours is just another extreme viewpoint.

 

[Justintime]

Yes, unfotunately i do have that viewpoint.

 

[Luis G]

dude, cool it, i'm with Scanty on this one, being "extremist" about extremists is a bad thing.

let them live their lives in their countries, they aren't killing you.

 

[Justintime]

You sure? i might be in the next building they dive bomb then Alla will be happy i guess

 

[Luis G]

don't worry, i don't think Allah will be pleased to met you in their Nirvana or Hell.

 

[ris]

extremism from any direction is wrong, but i believe they are in a minority in most cases. religious ideological purity is appealing as a method to obtain power, in many cases it is idiocyncratic and takes only what it wants from religion to serve its own, usually political gains.

stoning is a traditional way of dealing justice in the bible too, for similar crimes as set out under shariah law. even under shariah law it the rulings are made for political reasons, not those of relgious ideology.

as marvellous as it would be to believe that one bomb dropped would take out all extremists it is a fallacy to bleieve that it can happen that way. extremism is indocrinated by peers, people are driven to it, they feel that the oppression of their lives leads it to be their only option.

only education and reason can undo some of that; guns. bombs and hatred can only serve to perpetuate it. stoning is bad enough, nucleur winter is much worse and i wish that on no-one either.

 

[Jeslek]

I've seen you say a few times before, LL, that something made you sick.

And i wouldn't say it unless I truly meant it...but...that comment made me feel physically ill.

I do mean it. I completely support the death penalty. It should be public, or at least anyone that want to watch should be allowed to. And I mean what I'm saying, lethal injection is too graceful. Hanging is fast, clean, and simple. Same thing for a firing squad. The electric chair is painful, but if some states prefer that, I'm not going to complain.

I can't believe some of the views here.
I know it makes a lot of people angry to see and hear about groups of people who's ways are very different. I can't stand it either when I see people doing things that just don't seem to make sense. All in the name of religion or some kind of divine purpose, or whatever.

But can't you see that the views you're expressing now are just as subjective?

No I can't. I'm sorry, but Western society didn't evolve this far by butchering wifes and children. Islamic countries are where we were centuries ago. I don't see how they can justify killing 5,000 innocent people. If they try to justify that, they are wrong.

I sense someone is going to bring up Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Well, it was a simple equation. 250,000 or so Japanese now, or that + 10 million Americans over the next 20 years. Simple equation. Cold, but simple.

I'm reading stuff here, that is basically saying...your way is wrong and I'm right...so you should die.

Hm, no, that isn't what I said. But if they plan on murdering innocent people, well, they should be executed on the spot.

We have a right to disagree, but can't you see that everything comes from some kind of human judgement? All we've got to go by are our own feelings. You may feel justified in saying that someone should die because of the terrible things that they did...but in the same way...they too feel 'justified' in doing what they think is right.

Except we have centuries of philosophers behind us. In the case of this stoning, their judgment is flawed. Did they really incorporate judgment? Or was the crowd just anxious to see another stoning? Shouting "allah is great"? Was that truely a worship to Allah or just they getting giddy about a potential stoning?

I'm not taking any single view... I just think you have to realise that when you express these passionate views and say people should die, you're only using your own impaired judgement same as they are.

Who is to say my and the entire Western World's judgment are impaired? I firmly believe in absolute truths. And absolute evil and absolute goodness. There is no scale. There is no "opinion", "judgment", or "culture." Saying all cultures have their own good and evil defined and we must respect them is just wrong, in my humble opinion.

 

[Scanty]

as marvellous as it would be to believe that one bomb dropped would take out all extremists it is a fallacy to bleieve that it can happen that way. extremism is indocrinated by peers, people are driven to it, they feel that the oppression of their lives leads it to be their only option.

only education and reason can undo some of that; guns. bombs and hatred can only serve to perpetuate it. stoning is bad enough, nucleur winter is much worse and i wish that on no-one either.

I agree with you totally, ris.

Individuals on their own can usually be intelligent and able of free thought.
Individuals as part of a group is another matter completely.

And the last part. That is why I think just retaliating against extremism with another form of extremism can only - as you say - perpetuate the discord.

 

[Jeslek]

Plato said, "Everything in moderation."

 

[ris]

doesn't moderation indicate a scale?

 

[Scanty]

I firmly believe in absolute truths. And absolute evil and absolute goodness. There is no scale. There is no "opinion", "judgment", or "culture."

Which is why I can't carry on a debate with you, LL.
Absolute truths?
I would never think of myself as worldly enough to say that anything is definitely true or untrue. Even if I had scoured this whole Earth...this whole galaxy even, I still wouldn't.
You rate yourself too highly if you think that, as a human being having only lived here on this tiny planet, you are able to tell that 'absolute truths' exist.

Saying all cultures have their own good and evil defined and we must respect them is just wrong, in my humble opinion.

Of course all cultures have their own definition of what is good and evil. You said yourself "Islamic countries are what we were centuries ago". Yes, and back then we had very different ideas of what was good and evil than we do now.
I didn't say we should respect them. And I certainly don't respect most.

Our judgement is 'impaired' by everything that has ever been a part of our lives since we were born. I mean it in this sense... the mind that you are using now, and all it's attitudes/values/ beliefs has been influenced. Be it by your environment, genes, people around you...whatever.

Everyone on this Earth has a different take on things; different perceptions. No matter how small or large the variations between them are.
I am not saying the 'entire Western world's' judgement is impaired. At least not in the sense that you are thinking. But in the same way, the 'entire Western world's' judgement cannot be completely right either.

But then if you believe in definite truths and in the notion of 'good' and 'evil'...I don't think we'll reach an agreement.

 

[Luis G]

what she said

 

[Jeslek]

Which is why I can't carry on a debate with you, LL.
Absolute truths?

I would never think of myself as worldly enough to say that anything is definitely true or untrue. Even if I had scoured this whole Earth...this whole galaxy even, I still wouldn't.
You rate yourself too highly if you think that, as a human being having only lived here on this tiny planet, you are able to tell that 'absolute truths' exist.

Well, see you don't have to rate yourself to believe in absolute truths. Here is a quote of what happened in a philosophy class:

I was a college student attending a philosophy class. The left-wing professor’s first words to us were “There are no absolute truths.”

I raised my hand to say: “Professor, if that statement is true, then it is an absolute truth.”

The professor replied: “Even that statement is not absolutely true.”

I said “That statement is not absolutely true because there exists an absolute truth which is an exception to it.”

Then, in the typical elitist way, the professor said, “Son, I am trying to tell you that you cannot be certain of anything.”

I then asked, “Are you sure?”

At this point he asked me to leave his class or be quiet.

Rachels is one of those left-wing professors that is making an argument against absolute truths. Well, the United States wouldn't exist without absolute truths. In the Declaration of Independence, they write:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Of course all cultures have their own definition of what is good and evil. You said yourself "Islamic countries are what we were centuries ago". Yes, and back then we had very different ideas of what was good and evil than we do now.
I didn't say we should respect them. And I certainly don't respect most.

Our judgement is 'impaired' by everything that has ever been a part of our lives since we were born. I mean it in this sense... the mind that you are using now, and all it's attitudes/values/ beliefs has been influenced. Be it by your environment, genes, people around you...whatever.

Everyone on this Earth has a different take on things; different perceptions. No matter how small or large the variations between them are.
I am not saying the 'entire Western world's' judgement is impaired. At least not in the sense that you are thinking. But in the same way, the 'entire Western world's' judgement cannot be completely right either.

But then if you believe in definite truths and in the notion of 'good' and 'evil'...I don't think we'll reach an agreement.

Probably not. Care to make a case against absolute truths?

 

[Luis G]

Probably not. Care to make a case against absolute truths?

care to prove why your truths are absolute truths?

 

[Jeslek]

OK hm, lets take the ancient Babylonians. Human sacrifices were common. In fact, it was considered an honor to sacrifice your new born. If there are no absolute truths, then we today should just look at the Babylonians and say, "Well, it was their culture and their way of doing things. Therefore it cannot be wrong."

That would sicken me. Why would this stoning be upsetting to anyone that believes in cultural relativism? What they are doing is what their culture is dictating to them and is therefore right.