Debate last night

Cerise said:
"Senator Government's" ultimate goal is to get more people riding on the gravy train than pulling it. It's clear that his main goal is redistribution of wealth, not growth.
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No, actually his tax plan benefits the middle class. It's designed to expand the middle class instead of making the rich richer. It's clear that his main goal is growth instead of favors to the wealthy.
 
MrBishop said:
We have a reverse grade taxation... the more you earn, the higher percentage of your salary goes towards taxes..to a point.

Protects the poor, not the rich.
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I know that. My post was to point out that according to his interview with Diane Sawyer, he is not earning $280k and is an average American

Joe the plumber isn't the 'average American' - yes, he works a lot, but $280k/year isn't average. If Joe earned $40k - I think that his argument re: Obama's tax plan would sound far better.
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Cerise said:
He says 95% of Americans will get a tax cut, but 30% of Americans pay no income taxes. How does 95%=70%?

His version of a "tax cut" is not letting you keep more of what you earn, but to create or expand government handouts---AKA Welfare. He calls them "tax credits"---you'd get a refund even if you have no tax liability---a federal check from tax payers to non-taxpayers.
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well, he may have meant "taxpayers." i of course would not support a tax credit for those that don't pay any taxes to begin with. do have any support for your idea that his tax plan does this? if so i'd be interested in seeing it.

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so you're willing to vote on an ideological basis, ignoring that obama is probably way better for your personal finances than mccain?
 
are you kidding me?
obama acted like he didn't know what a joke was until about halfway through.
His delivery sucked.
 
2minkey said:
so you're willing to vote on an ideological basis, ignoring that obama is probably way better for your personal finances than mccain?
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Yes, exactly!!! Because no matter how many times he tells me we'll all be singing Kumbaya and passing lavender scented flatulence, I know that communism stinks!!!!!
 
2minkey said:
so you're willing to vote on an ideological basis, ignoring that obama is probably way better for your personal finances than mccain?
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absolutely. whats right is right. whats self defeting is self deafeating.

i am not wealthy. i do ok. my bills are paid, i save for retirement, i spend some as i go. those who are capable of out-earning me deserve to enjoy their profit. those who subsist and stick their hand out need it slapped. those who cant earn need our support

put it this way. should I find myself earning a more handsome wage, the last thing I want is some beauracrat digging his grimy hand in my pocket to hand my money to some wasteoid who wont help himself. i dont owe them shit. you want my money? Go earn it. Until you do, shut the hell up. disadvantaged my smelly ass. all I ever hear is how equal we are. if we're equal, get off your ass and earn your keep same as i do. If you cant do it, maybe we aint equl after all. is that my fault?

obama is a socialist. dress it up however you liek to get to sleep at night, but he's all about wealth redistrbution. If I Earn it why cant I KEEP IT? let spike earn his own living, aint my job to feed him. dont know him, dont owe him
 
2minkey said:
well, he may have meant "taxpayers." i of course would not support a tax credit for those that don't pay any taxes to begin with. do have any support for your idea that his tax plan does this? if so i'd be interested in seeing it.

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so you're willing to vote on an ideological basis, ignoring that obama is probably way better for your personal finances than mccain?
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"When you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

The heart of Obama’s tax cut proposal is in his use of refundable tax credits, which the Center describes as “credits available to eligible households even if they have no income tax liability” -- in short, refunds available even to those who don’t pay taxes. These refunds are claimed on tax returns and are paid to all taxpayers who qualify for them, regardless of whether they owe taxes or not. These refunds have the ability of reducing a taxpayer’s liability below zero, meaning they can get a refund without actually paying taxes.


In real numbers, 60.7 million people who have no tax burden at all will receive refunds from Obama, while only 33.8 million people, who pay approximately 40 percent of income taxes, will get any kind of refund. Twenty percent of taxpayers, who pay 87.5 percent of total income taxes, will actually see after-tax income decline under Obama by nearly two percent, according to the Center. http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=37519
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The Tax Foundation estimates that under the Obama plan 63 million Americans, or 44% of all tax filers, would have no income tax liability and most of those would get a check from the IRS each year. The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis estimates that by 2011, under the Obama plan, an additional 10 million filers would pay zero taxes while cashing checks from the IRS. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html
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Moreover, the tax credits would mostly go to those who pay little or nothing in federal income taxes. His trick is to make the tax credits "refundable." Thus, if the tax credit is for $1,000, but the taxpayer would otherwise only pay $200 in taxes, the government would write a check to the taxpayer for $800. If the taxpayer pays nothing in federal income taxes, the government would pay him the whole $1,000.

Such credits are not tax cuts. Indeed, they should be called The New Tax Welfare. In effect, Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand a slew of government spending programs that are disguised as tax credits. The spending on these programs is then subtracted from the total tax burden, in order to make the claim that his tax plan is a net tax cut overall. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910303529751345.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
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I love the way you guys whine about Obama and communism as if the current administration weren't driving us down that road at 150 mph. :lol:
 
2minkey said:
there is absolutely no question that obama's tax plan is better for the vast majority of americans. it's simple math.
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Is that with or without the Buh Tax cuts expiring?

Only one democrat has ever cut taxes. He was the exception. I missed the 3rd debate because I'm not voting fro either one. Stock answers against stock questions isn't a debate, it's a commercial.
 
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