First Muslim Congressman

chcr

Too cute for words
Allow me to interject here that being Southern AND being baptist does not necessarily make one a Southern Baptist.


Good point. Southern baptist is a denomination, not a description.

SnP, out of curiosity, as far as you know do any baptist denominations accept non-baptist baptisms?

Boy howdy, that's a weird sentence, ain't it? :D
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
I was raised 'Southern Baptist'
IMO anyone that believes in Jesus, and 'receives' him, is saved/accepted.

Baptism, like observance of the last supper, is more formality IMO, just
like the sprinkling.:shrug:

My understanding from what I read has drawn me away from what the
"Southern Baptist Assoc." has been doing for sometime now.

Money, seems to have destroyed most of the congregations in this area.

[Ray Stevens] "would Jesus wear a Rolex on his television show?" [/Ray Stevens]
 

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
Good point. Southern baptist is a denomination, not a description.

SnP, out of curiosity, as far as you know do any baptist denominations accept non-baptist baptisms?

Boy howdy, that's a weird sentence, ain't it? :D

I can only speak to what I have seen and experienced.

The Baptist churches I have belonged to and attended regularly "accept" other Christian professions of faith. That is to say, if someone wishes to join _________ Baptist Church and professes to have been saved in or having been a member of a Methodist church (for example) then nary an eye is batted. Many (but not all) will require that person to be baptized into the Baptist church, but the acceptance of their profession is there. I myself have no issue with that. Should I decide to join a different denomination and be asked to be baptized into that "congregation" it would not bother me at all.

The key as I see it is the salvation of the person. Being baptized is the next step in the process of that person's growth within THE CHURCH regardless what flavor church they cotton to. Some denominations sprinkle infants and call it good enough. I disagree, but that's me.

I should probably state here and now that many faiths, including some Christian faiths and particularly Catholicism, are not familiar to me to a point that I feel comfortable speaking for them, and in a few cases even speaking of them. I always worried more about what I was doing than what the church down the road was doing. Live and let live I reckon. I will add one thing though, to be taken for what each reader decides it is worth. I worked for over 5 years at a local radio station that broadcast religious programming all day on Sundays. These ranged from taped messages to live preaching. Many times I worked 16 hours on holidays (I needed the overtime) like Easter and Christmas. On these days, I listened to each message closely because I knew the same 5-12 verses of the Bible would be used by each denomination, and I wanted to see if I truly believed what I thought I believed. So before anybody starts clamoring about limited exposure to different beliefs, how many flavors of the crucifixion story have YOU heard back to back to back?

As to non-Baptist baptisms, again it can vary. Some won't, some will, some will depending on what kind of church the original baptism was in. Personally, if someone professes faith and salvation, that's enough. Baptism by full immersion should follow. If it has, nuff said. But I ain't Jerry Fallwell/Billy Graham/whoever. Like they matter any more than anybody else.
 

rrfield

New Member
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, will use a Quran once owned by Thomas Jefferson during his ceremonial swearing-in Thursday.

The chief of the Library of Congress' rare book and special collections division, Mark Dimunation, will walk the Quran across the street to the Capitol and then walk it back after the ceremony.

Ellison, a Minnesota Democrat, contacted the library about the book last month, Dimunation said.

Some critics have argued that only a Bible should be used for the swearing-in. Last month, Virginia Republican Rep. Virgil Goode warned that unless immigration is tightened, "many more Muslims" will be elected and follow Ellison's lead. (Full story)

Ellison was born in Detroit, Michigan, and converted to Islam in college.

Ellison spokesman Rick Jauert said the new congressman "wants this to be a special day, and using Thomas Jefferson's Quran makes it even more special."

"Jefferson's Quran dates religious tolerance to the founders of our country," he added.

An English translation of the Arabic, it was published in 1764 in London, a later printing of one originally published in 1734.

"This is considered the text that shaped Europe's understanding of the Quran," Dimunation said.

It was acquired in 1815 as part of a 6,400-volume collection that Jefferson sold for $24,000, to replace the congressional library that had been burned by British troops the year before, in the War of 1812.

"It was a real bargain," Dimunation said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
Seems I just draw inward a little more every day.
I'm probably going to have that phobia one day, where I scared to leave the house.:crap:
 

tonksy

New Member
Personally, I don't see why he shouldn't swear on the Qaran...that's his religion so swearing on it will mean something to him. Taking an oath of the book of his beliefs.
Asking a Muslim to swear on the Christian bible has the same levity as the NY phonebook.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
This would be a complete non-issue for me, had it come up before 9/11,
and probably would have made very little news, but it just seems all these
issues with non-traditional happenings are coming out of the woodwork now.
Just bad timing?:shrug:
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
More like, there are more people making issues out of happening...like the world's under a powerful microscope. Reminds me of the McCarthy era, eh.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
This would be a complete non-issue for me, had it come up before 9/11,
and probably would have made very little news, but it just seems all these
issues with non-traditional happenings are coming out of the woodwork now.
Just bad timing?:shrug:

They've always been there, cat. Just more loudmouthed morons taking issue with something that's really not an issue at all nowadays. As you say, before 9/11 nobody would have even noticed this. Everybody has an agendacized axe to grind now. The hard part about living in the "information age" is figuring out what's actually information (as opposed to the 99+% bullshit).
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
99%?
[Dustin Hoffman] It's all just layers of bushshit. You just pick the layer bullshit your comfortable with, and that's Your bullshit. [/Dustin Hoffman]:D
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
Personally, I don't see why he shouldn't swear on the Qaran...that's his religion so swearing on it will mean something to him. Taking an oath of the book of his beliefs.
Asking a Muslim to swear on the Christian bible has the same levity as the NY phonebook.



I agree though I would feel more comfortable if there were no religious text at all for the swearing: They are supposed to uphold the Constitution not a religion.
 

BB

New Member
so, me being me, i'll ignore that post above .... it's a load of bullshit anyhoo :D

ahem -

I've not really been following this - but i have a question:

What is the, or why should there be a problem with a Muslim Congressman?

Or should we not have women politicians .. ( ..ok ..ok ... well there IS a case :D ... j/k ;) ) ... should we draw the line at Jewish politicians? .... Black politicans? .... Hindi politicans? .... Gay politicians? .... Politicans with beards? ....

mexicans? ..those with Irish ancestry? ... Austrians? .... Latinos? ....


how about Sikhs? A third generation US Sikh, of good family following the american dream, neither him nor his two generation sof family never commited a crime in his familie's history in America, always been law abiding and paid taxes and worked hard?

NO?


I actually fail to see any issue here -

either you are the land of the free with a constitution and the rights of man etc and that is why our troops die in the heat and hell of the middle east, or they die for no reason.

I think Christians of ALL denominations or faiths should go and read their respective books, before they judge one man alone on the crimes and Evil of a minority of those who share his religion.

Try working that backwards .... we could have no Christians either, if we judged each and every Christian on any bad egg or terrorist group in the history of the West that were Christians.


If he is Muslim, he swears on the Quran. Simple.

What do atheists do btw? Swear on the NYTimes?
 

chcr

Too cute for words
I agree though I would feel more comfortable if there were no religious text at all for the swearing: They are supposed to uphold the Constitution not a religion.

Freak, as I understand it there are no religious texts at the official swearing in. This is a ceremony (read publicity opportunity) and is not "official" in any capacity. I personally don't care so much about the religious part (it doesn't mean anything to me) but the whole self-righteous stink it's raised certainly makes me worry even more that the religious right and their conservative lapdogs want our country to be more like the muslim countries and less like America.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
The thing to me is...
I thought taking the oath was so that there could be a level of trust, and
that the person taking it was agreeing to the terms in a way that was
acceptable to the people, and other members of the body.
This guy says he thinks it's for him, so it should be only meaningful for him.

Is this not the case?
 
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