Illegal is equal to (word that I'd put here but the whole board would collapse)

I don't like the illegals in this country either, but HL, you have to see a distinction here.

Your skills are marketable. You have some choice when looking for work what kind of price you can demand for your skils, your "product" if you will.

Farmers would love that kind of leveage. Have you ever been to a market? Ever been to a Co-op where crops are sold? When you get there you notice one thing right away. The price list. What they ARE going to pay you for the product you have. It's not the beginning of the bagaining area, it's the price. You can take it or leave it. Now, this price is usually set by the same people the sell the farmers supplies, at a pretty decent profit I might add, but they know what the farmer has in the crop, and the minimum amount the farmer needs to make a living, and that's where the price gets set. It sucks, but it's true.

That is why the small farmers end up hiring the illegals. Sure, they shouldn't. But when you're looking at making 10,000 profit this year or 14,000 profit this year, which route would you take?
 
I thought the government had all of those freaky programs from the depression era where they would pay you not to grow anything... or just pay you. God knows the US pays through the nose for certain crops, like sugar, because of protectionist pricing minimums set by the feds.
 
There are some of those programs in existence still. However, what you are paid is pro-rated against the amount you could produce on your land. So the big make money not to plant, while the small try to fill in the gap that's left because they don't nake enough from the program to apply for it. Take tobacco. You must buy an allotment. That is the poundage you may sell. It costs dearly to buy more allotment. If you don't produce your purchased allotment, tough titty. If you produce more, you are not allowed to sell it. Cool, huh?
 
Luis G said:
I think they find offensive the word "alien" rather than the word illegal. But who knows, I'll never be one, so I can't tell.

edit: why don't call them mojados (wets)? that's what we call them here anyway :D
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"Wetback" is impolite & racist :shrug:
 
Taco Bell had to quit using the slogan, "Head for the border," because it was offensive to illegal immigrants.

(Or was it "Run for the border"? Whichever. :shrug: )
 
Well shit, I can't understand why most mexicans won't act in a cool way like they do here, instead they go there an adopt the tight ass PC bullshit.

They sure don't learn the language, but adopt pretty fast the style.
 
Your back is gonna get wet

rio_grande.jpg
 
Luis G said:
They sure don't learn the language, but adopt pretty fast the style.
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More than 40% of Mexican adults say they would move to the USA if they could, and one in five say they would do so illegally if necessary, according to surveys released Tuesday by the Pew Hispanic Center.
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USAToday

[edit]somehow I missed JJRs version of this story, oops
 
Luis G said:
Well shit, I can't understand why most mexicans won't act in a cool way like they do here, instead they go there an adopt the tight ass PC bullshit.

They sure don't learn the language, but adopt pretty fast the style.
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Are you sure you're Mexican?
 
unclehobart said:
I thought the government had all of those freaky programs from the depression era where they would pay you not to grow anything... or just pay you. God knows the US pays through the nose for certain crops, like sugar, because of protectionist pricing minimums set by the feds.
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Sugar is still a huge gimme from the govt. But even that is a cash crop that is primarily ran by millionaires, if not billionaires. The huge corporate farms make a killing on the subsidies, while the small farmer has to grow as much as possible just to make a living.

Check this out.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg1763.cfm
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]With agricultural programs designed to target large and profitable farms rather than family farmers, it should come as no surprise that farm subsidies in 2002 were distributed overwhelmingly to large growers and agribusinesses--including a number of Fortune 500 companies. Chart 2 shows that the top 10 percent of recipients received 65 percent of all farm subsidies in 2002.6 At the other end, the bottom 80 percent of recipients (including most family farmers) received just 19 percent of all farm subsidies.
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[/font]
 
Have you ever been to a market? Ever been to a Co-op where crops are sold? When you get there you notice one thing right away. The price list. What they ARE going to pay you for the product you have.
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And you're missing the magic of shifts in the underpinnings of a free market. What they WILL PAY changes in a hurry when no one will sell for that price. If farmers aren't savvy enough to be able to pass on increased production costs like the rest of us, guess where the blame lies. With the farmers.

SnP MIGHT have a point about me underestimating the price increases I'd be facing, but he also may be underestimating the savings to be had by eliminating free programs fr illegals by at least as much.
 
Your previous comment just doesn't fit with the mentality I've seen here with Mexicans. They are most often the best at sucking the welfare systems for as much as possible, all the while screaming that they're being mistreated.
 
HomeLAN said:
And you're missing the magic of shifts in the underpinnings of a free market. What they WILL PAY changes in a hurry when no one will sell for that price. If farmers aren't savvy enough to be able to pass on increased production costs like the rest of us, guess where the blame lies. With the farmers.

SnP MIGHT have a point about me underestimating the price increases I'd be facing, but he also may be underestimating the savings to be had by eliminating free programs fr illegals by at least as much.
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There is one huge flaw in that logic. That low price is acceptable to the corporate farmer. So, the corporate farms would continue to operate at a profit while the small farmer is supposed to just sit on his only source of income?

Cmon, you're the accountant type, right? Surely you remember the Pure Competition Model.
 
PT said:
Your previous comment just doesn't fit with the mentality I've seen here with Mexicans. They are most often the best at sucking the welfare systems for as much as possible, all the while screaming that they're being mistreated.
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Most would soak welfare systems over here if they could too.

What strikes me is the offended and PC attitude, that's not part of the way things are here, is something they embraced when got there. Hence the they can't learn the language but can adopt other things pretty fast.
 
And you remember price elasticity, correct? While it may not be the highest in agri, it's there. BTW, get the illegals out of the big farms as well. That'll level your playing field (well, at least to as level as it is now). That low price will stop being acceptable to the corporate farmer.

What you people are telling me is that farming is a business where you simply cannot succeed without breaking the law. I ain't buying it.
 
HomeLAN said:
What you people are telling me is that farming is a business where you simply cannot succeed without breaking the law. I ain't buying it.
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As things stand right now, today, in reality, it is exactly as you state. Yes, there are exceptions. But by and large, to remain solvent under the current system, the small farmer must cut every corner there is just to stay afloat, profit be damned.

And that, friends and neighbors, is a damn shame.
 
I also believe it to be untrue.

I haven't changed any minds on this board before, and I don't expect that to magically change today, but I'll say this: As long as you remain willing to cut one class of employer a break on hiring illegals, you need to STFU about any urge you may have about seeing them sent home. There's a word for that where I come from, and it starts with an H.
 
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