israel law limits arab citizenship

[ris]

the israeli parlaiment has just passed a law preventing palestinians who marry arab-israelis from gaining full citizenship and being stopping them from making a home in israel.

exponents of the policy which was passed 53 to 25 said it was necessary for security reasons and to maintain the jewish character of the state of israel.

human rights campaigners condemned it calling it rascist.

bbc more

i can sort of understand the security issues [there have been 30 suicide attacks from arab-israeili citizens - of the 100,000 west bank and gaza palestinians who have achieved citizenship]. but the notion of preserving a racial character to the country is something i find particularly distasteful, especially if israel is a secular country that should have no place identiying a religious base for its citizenship.

in a sort of related story israel has also given authorisation for a new housing settlement in gaza. the move is seen as particularly problematic as a major part of the israeli side of the us sponsored roadmap is the ceasation and dismantling of settlements.

sharon has said that the roadmap will not be implemented until the palestinian miliant groups disarm - something they are extremely unlikely to do without seeing some movement on the issue of settlements from the israeilis. the move is also likely to undermine mahmoud abbas' achievements in the roadmap.

guardian online

the idea that the militants will agree to disarm without israel moving along the roadmap themselves is naiive if not downright idiotic. even in northern ireland the ira is still a long way from total disarmament and this is nearly 10 years on from the first ceasefires. the process requires little steps where each side shows willing, creating steadily more trust and achieving realistic goals.
the palestinian authority, and abbas in particular, achieved something useful and powerful in the hamas [et al] ceasefires. this is a golden opportunity that israel should not be wasting.

 

[Gonz]

human rights campaigners condemned it calling it rascist.

Yep, sure as shit is. Well, not so much racists as religionist, which, by the way, is what Israel was founded on.

 

[Raven]

yep, its the worlds only (sposeda be) Jewish state. If the Arabs wanna complain about that tell them how big Israel is compared to the rest of the middle east....I'm sure that they can see that Israel is not the 'expansionist zionist agressor' the make it out to be. Thats racist.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

but the notion of preserving a racial character to the country is something i find particularly distasteful

This has to be put into perspective ris, this is not the Nazis attempting to cleanse the earth it's a people who really and truly believe from history that their very existance is at stake.
2600 years ago King Nebuchadnezzer ripped the Jews from their homes and forced them into exile in the city of Babylon. Seventy years later they were allowed to return to Israel. Hundreds of years later the jews were caught between the Christians & Arabs during the crusades and suffered immeasurably enduring centuries of persecution all the while being once again expelled from their homeland as israel was destroyed by Rome in 70ad. In 1095 christians were once again ordered to regain control of Israel. Fifty years later the crusaders again emerged and again in 1189. By this time Jews were hated all throughout Europe as they were "non christian believers". They were forced from Israel into Europe where they weren't wanted. In 1479 the Spanish Inquisition began. For the first 20 years of the Inquisition Jews in spain were buried alive and burned at the stake and eventually all Jews were expelled from Spain to take up residence in portigul only to be driven out of portugal into England & France untimately to be driven from them as well.
The jews were persecuted and driven from nation to nation through the sixteenth, seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries until someone came up with a final solution to this problem, the final solution. Poland had 3,350,000 Jews in 1939 and by 1945 there were a mear 50,000. During this same time 750,000 Jews were murdered in Russia, 160,000 in Germany, 200,000 in Hungary, 370,000 in Romania, 270,000 in Czechoslovakia, and 120,000 in the Netherlans. The germans didn't do it all by themselves. These are not isolated incedents for the Jews but a reality that has followed them through history for thousnads of years. Israel has been attacked on many occasions over the past 50 years on all sides and has listened to Arab nation heads brag about how they will one day destroy Israel so why shouldn't Israel take them at their at their word? The fact is that Israeli Jews are in danger of annihalation should thier nation become overwhelmed by Arabs. The danger is a reality based on recent history not an excuse to keep the jewish bloodstream pure. Fiighting is distasteful as well wouldn't you agree? What about fighting for yoiur life? Is that distasteful?

 

[ris]

i hear a great deal about how arabs are jealous of israels freedoms and democracy. i see some arabs wanting to join that ideal. i see israel using race and religious purity [amongst other reasons] to deny them those rights.

notions of racial and religious purity within countries make me sad. i hear great swathes of rhetoric from bigots in the uk who tell me that black and asian families, immigrants and asylum seekers are diluting britishness and destroying my culture. it's drivel designed to ferment hatred and rascism.
my secular state may be formed with ideas based on a religion but it welcomes and absorbs others into it. the uk is still at heart a christian country but the government rightly does not use religion as a basis for making policy decisions. a secular state should demand equalities for all.

and as tragic as the history of the jewish people is i am saddened to see israel taking a stance such as this. i believe peace will be best achieved through bringing palestians and israeli's together, not seperating them, even within the same country.

 

[chcr]

I agree ris. What do you think about the wall? My first reaction was: Didn't they try this in Berlin?

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

Granted every decision Israel makes will not be perfect. My arguement however is not to say that it will be. This is rather insignificant anyway since the Israeli interior minister has had the right to deny anyone in the past for any reason anyway. In fact in the past ten years only 16,000 Arabs were granted citizenship to Israel via this route, hardly a significant number. Arabs aren't jealous of freedom and democracy, they simply hate the Jews(many Arabs) but the fact that Israel is so wealthy and powerful only compounds the animosity that has existed for thousands of years. I would like to make one correction though, Israel is not concerned with racial puriity, it is however concerned about religous persuasion. Israel has no problem whatsoever allowing Arab, black or Chinese Jews Become citizens so long as they are religous Jews. In fact the Israeli government is to this day still extracting jews from Africa, China and dozens of other nations in an effort to bring them 'home'. So it's not ethnic but religous. Ugly? Yes, but logical from the Jews perspective. I agree that it's sad to see this but such is the tension in the middle east at this point in time.

 

[ris]

the main problem i think i have, rightly or wrongly, is that the notion of 'jewish character' is something that can be dredged up to bring all manner of restrictions, both to palestinians and israelis to move the state past its original ideas and prevent it from adapting to what will hopefully be a future peaceful co-existance with its neighbours.

 

[ihcra]

balance

actually the policy is nothing to do with preserving jewishness and neither is it anything to do with purity of population

precisely as ris ppointed out israel is by and large a secular state in that it has a legal system which is codified and based on international law and not on the talmud or any other nonsecular doctirne - or at least no less than the rest of us

the 'theory' behind this policy is that arab-israeli partnerships then allow arab arab partnerships and marriages to exist in a second wave/generation or whatever and therefore within 1 generation it is possible to increase the citizenry of non-nationals.

that said i do believe it is a crude and dangerous policy.

also ris i know full well you prediliction for posting anti-israeli propaganda - no matter how politely you do it but i notice in this thread you mention the one new settlement being developed (incidentally against the wishes of the governemtn and instead by private individuals and developers) and not the several settlements that the governemnt has already forced its own citizens to withdraw from.

now to offer my own anti-israeli stance they did removed peoples from fairly uncontentious occupying settlements and haven't really shown much effort in stopping this latest but i hate to see a blatant imbalance

oh and hi again everyone!

 

[Gato_Solo]

Last I heard, every country has a say in who, and who cannot, become a citizen. That being said, I think that the Israeli's are in theory correct, if not in practice. Why invite those who hate you to live in your house?

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

I agree Solo. I also truly believe that many who could otherwise understand Israels logic refuse to becuase their minds are permeated by an intense hatered for the jews. Sadly however this often comes in such a hidden form that it renders debate & discussion a useless waste of time.

 

[Raven]

What is it with intense anti-semitism in the workd today? Especially from Muslim countries. Is there some big secret that no-one else knows?

 

[AlladinSane]

Last I heard, every country has a say in who, and who cannot, become a citizen. That being said, I think that the Israeli's are in theory correct, if not in practice. Why invite those who hate you to live in your house?

Maybe not, but if you have stolen someone's house you shall be prepared for them to come and throw rocks at you from time to time.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

Throw stones at my house and family and be prepared to eat a bullet.

 

[AlladinSane]

Sure you would, but then they would have already hit your wife causing her permanent injuries. Then it will be too late...

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

And the battle rages on. So in the long run it's probably just better to keep them out of the country and avoid the violence.

 

[AlladinSane]

And how will you get them out without violence? Nope, doesn't work that way. Building is more difficult than destroying, it requires patience, work and goodwill...

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

I'm not concerned with those Arabs that already live there. Israel has 1.5 million Arabs who call it home. That's fine. But during this time of turmoil i would be concerned about who i let in. It's common sense. Maybe things will be different five years from now.

 

[outside looking in]

common sense is not politically correct.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

Especially when it doesn't fit into the agenda. Then it becomes racially motivated hatred regardless of the facts.

..returns to frisking little old ladies and al gore before boarding the plane