It's personal & nobody's business

Your link proves nothing. Im sure if I had the time to waste I could link up about 20 web sites with equally long lists of how many time they screwed up, dropped the ball, or that many "facts" in that link are just plain wrong or were decisions made by other people than clinton.

Now having said that. I alrady admitted that a conservative administration COULD HAVE screwed up equally bad.

As Ris pointed out:

i heard no-one from the us standing up from the republican side, or any other side, and demanding the arrest of islamic militants with a grudge against the us. i somewhat doubt that had clinton not been in office the attitude would have been any different.

I think that is an excellent point. However, could have would have whatever, ...maybe a good point but it didnt turn out that way in the real history.
 
Gonz said:
My vote-Hell yea.

If I were in a position that affecterd matters of national security, I'd say no.

gonz, just curious...which continent would you NOT like to be bombed? :D
 
Australia is okay & you're mostly safe (France really screws that up) :D

The poles aren't any problem & most of Africa is safe. No problems with S America at the moment & N America is safe.
 
Now Gonz, we all know that you want to nuke Ohio, and as intolerant as you are, australia's reverse spin toilets would be enough to swing your vote toward aggression....Just tell us the truth. Would ya?...:D
 
Haven't been reading through threads in the RW for a while, so I must ask, what's wrong with Ohio? :confuse3:
 
ooohhh...don't get him started :D PLEASE

just take that from me, lol...:D


and gonz....s america is ok....guess you forgot about cuba :p

i love cuba btw :D :p
 
AnomalousEntity said:
Not a last ditch response to anything. Ive been placing the blame squarely with those responsible and Ive been doing it since the early 90s.

I admit I dont have many (details), names, dates, and events (details) then again, I cant exactly explain gravity either, but I know it exsists. I dont think you could refute gravity just because hypothetical person x in a dissusion forum somewhere didnt have all the evidence to prove it.

Your placing blame in the wrong place and thats just how it is....sad really!

So you don't like to supply any evidence for your claims? I understand, but don't expect to be taken too seriously around here. It's obvious that Gonz would like to put 9/11 on Clinton as well, but we all know if BushCo had paid attention to all the warnings they got 9/11 never would have happened.
 
flavio said:
So you don't like to supply any evidence for your claims? I understand, but don't expect to be taken too seriously around here. It's obvious that Gonz would like to put 9/11 on Clinton as well, but we all know if BushCo had paid attention to all the warnings they got 9/11 never would have happened.


No no...that is an excellent point. However, I have always blamed that on a breakdown between the CIA, FBI, and NSA etc etc. I really dont think the Bush admin was even up and running well at that point in time.

As far as being taken seriously, I could do all of that research to prove my point, but then Im reminded of that wonderfully funny picture of the special olympics kid winning a race that says somthing about winning an internet argument and still being a retard, and frankly I have better things to do than to play research boy for a discussion thread.

Does anyone take anyone seriously here? :D
 
I'm still waiting for the connection between Willie's willie and Bush's attacks to be made?

[quote="Gonz]We took out the Afghanistan with amazing ease[/quote]

Um, then why are people still dying over there? Maybe because bits of it still aren't taken yet? The russians had years there, with a helluva lot shorter supply lines than you do, and they never took the place. They eventually left with their tails between their legs.
 
Gandalfs horse said:
s america is ok....guess you forgot about cuba

Cuba is not S America :p

Squiggy said:
and as intolerant as you are...

I am not the least bit intolerant. I am fed up with do nothing worthless shits & every dick & jane who feels their life isn't what they expected getting handouts. I've never shot nobody...who didn't carry a gun :D

Prof said:
I'm still waiting for the connection between Willie's willie and Bush's attacks to be made?
me said:
Had Clinton the foresight to accept the Sudanese offer & taken binLaden into custody, Sept 11 most likely wouldn't have happened. It wasn't just one offer either. Some reports claim as many as 11 times we had a chance. Not once was the offer taken seriously. Not once did Clinton act as a President should & look out for the best interest of America.

As for your other point, that's America. There are more murders in a night in almost any major American city than GI's geting killed in a week in Iraq and Afghanistan. The governing body is working with NATO, not against us, which makes it a victory.
 
Gonz said:
As for your other point, that's America. There are more murders in a night in almost any major American city than GI's geting killed in a week in Iraq and Afghanistan. The governing body is working with NATO, not against us, which makes it a victory.

Before all this there were the same amount of murders in major American cities and not too many GI's getting killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Was there a point there anywhere?

What's your definition of victory now? What governing body is working with NATO?

Bush has made a great big mess of things, cost the US a fortune, made the US much more hated the world over than ever, gone begging the UN for troops and money after snubbing them before, killed thousands and got thousands more wounded, and yet there is no end in sight to the madness. He's a wet dream for people like Osama.
 
flavio said:
Bush has made a great big mess of things, cost the US a fortune, made the US much more hated the world over than ever, gone begging the UN for troops and money after snubbing them before, killed thousands and got thousands more wounded, and yet there is no end in sight to the madness. He's a wet dream for people like Osama.

You just keep believing that & all will be well. Maybe you'll get lucky & Howard Dean will become president & he'll step in & fix the problem. God knows the terrorists are deathly afraid of whining & the certainly won't attack a country that pulls it's forces out & runs away. That's why we're in this mess to begin with.
 
Gonz said:
You just keep believing that & all will be well. Maybe you'll get lucky & Howard Dean will become president & he'll step in & fix the problem. God knows the terrorists are deathly afraid of whining & the certainly won't attack a country that pulls it's forces out & runs away. That's why we're in this mess to begin with.
You just keep trying to blame this mess on someone besides Shrubby don't you? I guess if the administration expects that ruse to keep working why shouldn't you?

Victory huh?

Even Postcode was too embarrassed to keep his WMD sig, but you're going to claim victory? :lol:
 
Gonz, what you posted doesn't make any sense at all. It doesn't address that Afganistan isn't, and probably never will be American friendly. And it doesn't address why you brought up Willie's willie. That he's a letcher. A liar. A pig of the first order. Sure. But what does that have to do with his ability to govern? I've had bosses who were total assholes. But they could manage an office too. As much as you'd like them to, one doesn't actually have anything to do with the other. Kennedy was getting as much tail in office as Clinton. And a helluva lot better quality tail, I might add. But I don't hear any complaints about his handling of the Cuban missile crisis. And I'll wager that they're not the only presidents getting a little on the side, either.

I'll put it as simply as I can, and I'll beg your indulgence of my ignorance of american politics. The president's office is an awful place to work. In fact, not much ever gets done there. Imagine the stacks and piles of paper that would have to pile up just in a single day, if the president really made many decisions at all. It stands to reason that only matters of supreme importance would actually cross the president's desk. What would constitute important would vary greatly from one administration to another, wouldn't it?

Something blasted across the 5 o'clock news would probably make it. But it's time on that desk would probably equal it's time on the tube. Considering the amount of time Clinton spent in court defending himself, I don't think it's unreasonable that a few hundred americans getting bombed in an attack thousands of miles away would get shuffled out pretty fast. It would get the attention of an under secretary or some such and that would be that.

You need to remember that the president's office is a political position. Not a career. All thinking is done within a four year box. And if, God forbid, you manage to stay popular enough to land a second term, that's it. No reup a third time. So you're not thinking about what you'll do with Umbanaland next year. You're thinking about how you can position yourself to keep making greenbacks once you're out of office. After all, how many former presidents have returned to the senate/congress? they go back to the private sector.

The question you guys really need to ask yourselves is, "Who's really making the decisions?". Civil servants? Ministers? A magic 8 ball? I'd recomend watching a few episodes of Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister, if you can find them. PBS sometimes carries it. I'd wager it's a closer portrayal of politics than West Wing.
 
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