It's Time!

2minkey said:
i doubt it's that simple.
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You're right. Its much simpler than that. People are led by the nose by what they perceive to be 'right' and 'wrong'. Before the debacle in Iraq, the news media led the public into a fever pitch over WMD's, nuclear ambitions, and the general naughtiness of Saddam Hussein. Most of the public bought it...hook, line, and sinker. It was right after 9/11, and the people wanted revenge, and who better to take it out on than the thorn in the side of three administrations?

2minkey said:
media leaks don't spend tax dollars. twits in office do. and don't tell me the current twit pays much attention - or has ever paid much attention - to what "the people" want as allegedly articulated through or set off by the media. he does what HE wants, and what his chummy boys tell him to do. clinton rode the polls. bush couldn't give a shit. he's always trying to convince US. and he has convinced the left side of the bell curve.
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Tsk, tsk. You must not be as logical a thinker as you claim to be using such an insulting tone in your last sentence. I'll break it down for you...The so-called 'twits in office' are there because the people from both sides of the bell curve put them there. They, the twits you mentioned, are supposed to do the will of the people. If the will of the people tends towards a fight, which it did when this whole thing started, then thats what will happen. As for the current administration doing what it wants, you at least have to respect that. Notice that last word and mull it over. The last administration spent its waning time ducking and covering from stupidity. This administration just says 'tough shit' and 'deal with it'. You know where its coming from, which is quite a refreshing change from the backstabbing going on since 1974.

2minkey said:
lots of wars have a point. this one doesn't. i'd rather the money be spent on something worthwhile.
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Really? Name one. I'll be patient.
 
spike said:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/15/marines.iraq.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Spreading democracy :rofl2:

Yep, time to go.
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What is wrong with you?

You forgot to call the US troops "baby killers."

Oh, wait---it's al Qaeda that does that:

..... The official reported that on a couple of occasions in Baqubah, al Qaeda invited to lunch families they wanted to convert to their way of thinking. In each instance, the family had a boy, he said, who was about 11 years old. As LT David Wallach interpreted the man’s words, I saw Wallach go blank and silent. He stopped interpreting for a moment.

I asked Wallach, “What did he say?” Wallach said that at these luncheons, the families were sat down to eat. And then their boy was brought in with his mouth stuffed. The boy had been baked. Al Qaeda served the boy to his family.
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Coming from one of one of three embedded journalists covering Operation Arrowhead Ripper.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/baqubah-update-05-july-2007.htm

Spike said:
Well let's just end it because most Iraqis, US citizens, and US soldiers want us to and maybe because it's huge waste of taxpayer money that's having the opposite of the intended effect.
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Congress has no excuse.

All they have to do is take away the cash.

Isn't that what the 2006 election was about? Ending our Iraq policy?

If most Americans want us out of Iraq why doesn't Congress defund the war? Why do they hesitate, if the overwhelming majority of Americans support their position? They don't want the adoration of millions of people? What could they possibly have to lose by turning off the money?
 
Gato_Solo said:
.

Really? Name one. I'll be patient.
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1. More resources for the effort in afghanistan.
2. More analysts, researchers, and field personnel for the war on terror (I have a relative tasked to antiterrorist stuff at a pretty high level and he tells me that they end up having to ignore a lotta shit that shouldn't be, just because of a lack of manpower).
3. Updated equipment for government agencies and law enforcement to fight terrorism.
4. Funding R+D in energy development so we can tell the middle east to get bent and not end up fighting China later over energy resources.
5. Building missile defense.
6. Making massive tax incentives for technical education so we can catch up before the rest of the world whoops our lazy asses.

I'm sure I can think of several more...
 
your comment was proximate to "something worthwhile" so i done thought that's what you meant.

okay. i suppose WW2 had a point.

there's "one."

one could even suggest that "containing communism" was a more coherent goal than that of the current endeavor. i mean, gee, at least where we went they HAD COMMIES BEFORE WE GOT THERE. in iraq the real international terrorists (as opposed to local thugs) showed up AFTER we did.
 
catocom said:
it's my understanding that it's costing 10bil a day now, to be there.:shrug:
That is with a "B"
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just technical correction.
I did mis-hear. It was said to be 10bil a month, not day.

I still don't know how accurate, but I haven't heard it contested.

It really is a tough thing to decided which side to jump on on this one, but
I personally have committed to my latter remarks to continue my 'trust'
that Gen Pertaeus can, and will achieve at least some of the objectives
that Really need to be met.
Will it be totally what is wanted, most surely not, but at least they may have
some kind of chance.

I surely don't have much intel, but must be a reason the Gen gave the
time-table that he did.:shrug:
 
So after you guys surrender in Iraq
and Iran takes over Iraq
and gets the bomb
and can hold the world hostage by closing the
Strait of Hormuz

How many of our boys will die undoing that mess?

nah we will 'stay the course' thank you very much.
 
Now winky, you should know better than to ask certain people to think farther ahead than the next bite. Fact is, it's that very brand of shortsightedness that builds some platforms. Proof enough that sometimes enough toothpicks can indeed become a house.
 
eh, back on a serious note though...
This really isn't about Just Iraq.
Just look....at the surrounding countries, and the impact of Not getting this right.

Lebanon is likely to be taken.
Turkey and the Kurds will likely go at it.
Hamas will likely strengthen.
Jordan, and Saudi Arabia would start experiencing Major turmoil.
Iran and Syria would be embolden to some unGodly degree.
Not to mention how Al-qaeda influence world wide would bolster.
 
yes, yes, iraq is all part of this big strategic plan to prevent a massive row of dominoes from falling. obviously, the planners of this war had great strategic insight, since everything has gone precisely according to plan... they obviously thought light years beyond 'the next bite.'

:rofl:

don't stop.... believin'
hold on to that feelay-e-yiiiin

wow just imagine how the world would be different if we'd dumped half a trillion dollars on actually fighting terrorism....

impotence. it looks so silly on america.

thanks, guys, keep reaching for that rainbow.
 
the planners of this war had great strategic insight
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well you got me there.
I'm not a fan of the pres. right now, and may never be again.
You may have missed the part where Rumsfeld left, and 2 top Generals
were removed.
I have heard what the new/current General has said though, and he hasn't
had his chance totally yet.

long before Gen Pertaeus was put it his current position, when I first thought
it looked like civil war, I said I thought a withdrawal back to secure the borders
was needed. Didn't happen, and the insurgents got way worse.

That was then. Now it's a totally different situation.
A new plan was voted on, and approved, overwhelmingly. Now halfway through,
some people and the congress want to give up on it.
I did too, before I had more facts. Mainly about time-lines.
I, as many, maybe most, were fed-up with the lack of progress, but
what I didn't factor in was intelligence that I'm not privy to, and what
Gen Pertaeus believes can be done, and the best way to do it.
 
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