keep buying Chinese crap at Wal-Mart
- Thread starter Winky
- Start date
Winky
Well-Known Member
And by that fact wouldn't you agree that
their current form of government is doomed?
How about the ‘break-up” of China ala the Soviet style break-up?
I will give them credit.
A free society never could have implemented the 'one child rule' no wait, maybe that's not quite accurate?
Evidence the declining birth rates in the U.S. and Europe?
You do comprehend the significance of the term from the article
“The purchase by state-owned CNOOC Ltd.,”
or not?
their current form of government is doomed?
How about the ‘break-up” of China ala the Soviet style break-up?
I will give them credit.
A free society never could have implemented the 'one child rule' no wait, maybe that's not quite accurate?
Evidence the declining birth rates in the U.S. and Europe?
You do comprehend the significance of the term from the article
“The purchase by state-owned CNOOC Ltd.,”
or not?
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Winky said:
Those two quotes seems to rub together wrong. If the company is state-owned, then they're no closer to a capitalist gvt ideology. If it had been a privately-owned firm, that'd be another story.Winky said:
I think that China has a far stronger grasp on its citizens than the Russains did, though a collapse of China into smaller nations like what happened to the USSR would cause a good share of havok in that region. Perhaps combined with invasions of parts of Russia, Korea etc..
the new "Middle East"
chcr
Too cute for words
Winky said:
They haven't been truly communist since the mid-seventies. I hope they'll become more free, but I don't know if they will. "Break-up ala Soviets?" There's a difference. The USSR was never really one country and never thought of themselves as such. China, on the other hand...
Winky
Well-Known Member
OK I know what you mean
and I realize the Japs by virtue
of improper governance and an aging populace
fell flat on their faces
(dood they are only like 127 million peeps living onna chain of Islands!!!)
Still they are (were?) the second largest economy of earth.
(heh heh heh those poor Your-a-peons)
Witness the destruction of the American Auto industry.
Yep yer kid's kid will work for a Chinese owned company?
I actually know the soluttion to the problem
and it is actually rooted in the drastic change in Chnia
since the eighties
It starts witha F and ends witha M
and it rhymes with pool and its oh so cool
and we are all fools
so how’s the truck drivin’ game a goin’ on?
have you nearly equaled the cushy dealio you had a goin’ on before?
and I realize the Japs by virtue
of improper governance and an aging populace
fell flat on their faces
(dood they are only like 127 million peeps living onna chain of Islands!!!)
Still they are (were?) the second largest economy of earth.
(heh heh heh those poor Your-a-peons)
Witness the destruction of the American Auto industry.
Yep yer kid's kid will work for a Chinese owned company?
I actually know the soluttion to the problem
and it is actually rooted in the drastic change in Chnia
since the eighties
It starts witha F and ends witha M
and it rhymes with pool and its oh so cool
and we are all fools
so how’s the truck drivin’ game a goin’ on?
have you nearly equaled the cushy dealio you had a goin’ on before?
Winky
Well-Known Member
chcr
Too cute for words
Gonz said:
You are certainly right, but I'm not sure it matters, Gonz. Even the people who are optomistic about oil reserves seem to think we'll start running out in less than fifty years. Of course wind and solar technology doubles in efficiency and halves in cost about every year, so I don't sweat it too much (oh yeah, and I prolly won't live that long
). Did you know that they can print solar cells on card stock paper now? Cool, huh? Ain't technology wonderful. 
The oil reserves were supposed to run out right after Reagan took over. By the turn of the century at the absolute latest. I ain't buying any of it. I'd just like to find an alternative s we can tell these other folks to eat their oil reserves. Unfortunately, we are a world governed by power.
chcr
Too cute for words
Nope. We're in a world governed by wealth (we always have been and always will be). Right now oil is wealth. Wasn't always won't stay that way though (at one time it was spices, believe it or not). It will until we run out or until something more cost-effective comes along. Re the running out though, I used to agree with you, but over the last few years I've read some interesting data. NOt that you couldn't still be right and me all wet, but the simple fact is that at some point we will run out. It's not renewable (well, it is, but I think we all have to die). Again, I seriously doubt the world will end or anything. The real push will start when it's evident that we've used more than there is left. You think the prices are high now...Gonz said:
Winky
Well-Known Member
chcr said:
Wait til there are 800 million cars on Chinese roads!
Every drop of energy on this planet comes ‘came’ from the Sun.
The energy in the food you eat, the energy locked in the biomatter
that makes up hydrocarbon fuels, even the energy that is available
from Uranium (cooked up in the explosions of super-novi).
Until we can harness fusion ourselves we will have to control
the oil (and or plow under the enviro-wackos and burn coal).
As long as peeps will trade their black gold for pieces of paper
with deceased notables on em’ we will be sound as a pound!
Oh and Cheeky solar power is SO 70’s
get with the 21st century Dood!
chcr
Too cute for words
Winky said:
Not anymore. Wind and solar are the real technologies of the future. Hydrogen fuel cells are pretty, but they'll never be more than a curiosity. First, because the best stuff to isolate hydrogen is from hydrocarbons and even then it costs more than the resultant energy is worth. Wind power is already profitable in spots and solar is rapidly approaching it. We're probably less than twenty years away from feasably shingling your house (at about twice the cost of regular shingles) with the afforementioned printed solar cells. various storage systems already exist and the utility company is required to credit you for any excess you generate (although that will change rather quickly). It'ss take a good long while to implement, but all the technology already exists. Interesting how you rarely hear about it on popular media. It's fairly common knowledge in the scientific community.
Welcome to the future. Perhaps not the immediate future, however. See, I think we should be all over shit like this. Like Gonz says, the energy producing nations (read OPEC) have us by the short and curlies. Let's cut 'em loose. Let the Chinese deal with 'em.
Oh, and Gonz? My wife has been to India. From what she says, the more Indian drivers there are, the less Indian drivers there will be, if you take my meaning.
Winky
Well-Known Member
My dear "I'm not a Liberal" friend.
C'mon dood we both grew up in the 70's
we remember the embargo and gas lines
solar being hailed as the savior for our energy needs.
Remember the companies that sprang up selling
home energy management systems?
The facts that kept solar from 'taking off' then still
exist today:
It costs more than crude.
No matter how cheap the cells and there required ancillary
equipment become oil is still cheaper and their is ongoing maintenance cost involved with solar.
(Honey did you wash down the solar panels today?)
You know as well as I that solar makes DC current.
It has to be inverted into AC.
It ain't always sunny.
Hell I live in what should be the solar capital of the world.
We have more sunny days than anywhere. Oh and durn it even here it still gets dark at night.
Which brings you too another deal killa, storage.
There isn't an efficient means of storing any excess power that is produced during the day. You lose so much first in the 'puttin' it in' and then the 'taking it out' phases
that it just ain't workable.
Initial cost? Who in their right mind would want to make a five digit investment in solar (and know that you'd have ongoing maintenance and repair costs during the lifetime of the system) when the alternative cost of just hooking up the grid is far cheaper?
And don't come back with the crap about how "oh when the costs of grid power go higher then you'll see solar take off". Nope see above why that will nevah happen.
The solution is two fold.
The utility companies will need to find non-hydrocarbon based means of producing power and just as the average MPG of the cars on the road in the US have steadily gotten better since the A-Rabs pulled their stunt in the 70's so too must the 'mileage' of home use increase.
Today from a dollars and sense standpoint an Insight or a Prius makes zero economic sense so too does a home buyer
trying to produce significant amounts of solar power 'onsite'.
Hell I'd love to see insanely efficient homes and cars.
But I'm not willing to pay MORE from the car or home than the amount of money I'd save by just gettin' the 'regular' version.
and neither is any other American, outside of the eco-warrior fringeoids.
I will admit tho…
How cool would it be to have a bunch of panels in the backyard.
And all my stuff in the house runs on DC voltage.
And my yearly power costs are cut to a tenth of what I now pay.
You’ve seen the half buried ‘earth homes’.
They can stay cool in the summer warm in the winter.
Cuz I show nuff ain’t gonna be running the current
220 volt 2.7 KWh A/C unit that I have now offa a bunch of
solar panels huh?
C'mon dood we both grew up in the 70's
we remember the embargo and gas lines
solar being hailed as the savior for our energy needs.
Remember the companies that sprang up selling
home energy management systems?
The facts that kept solar from 'taking off' then still
exist today:
It costs more than crude.
No matter how cheap the cells and there required ancillary
equipment become oil is still cheaper and their is ongoing maintenance cost involved with solar.
(Honey did you wash down the solar panels today?)
You know as well as I that solar makes DC current.
It has to be inverted into AC.
It ain't always sunny.
Hell I live in what should be the solar capital of the world.
We have more sunny days than anywhere. Oh and durn it even here it still gets dark at night.
Which brings you too another deal killa, storage.
There isn't an efficient means of storing any excess power that is produced during the day. You lose so much first in the 'puttin' it in' and then the 'taking it out' phases
that it just ain't workable.
Initial cost? Who in their right mind would want to make a five digit investment in solar (and know that you'd have ongoing maintenance and repair costs during the lifetime of the system) when the alternative cost of just hooking up the grid is far cheaper?
And don't come back with the crap about how "oh when the costs of grid power go higher then you'll see solar take off". Nope see above why that will nevah happen.
The solution is two fold.
The utility companies will need to find non-hydrocarbon based means of producing power and just as the average MPG of the cars on the road in the US have steadily gotten better since the A-Rabs pulled their stunt in the 70's so too must the 'mileage' of home use increase.
Today from a dollars and sense standpoint an Insight or a Prius makes zero economic sense so too does a home buyer
trying to produce significant amounts of solar power 'onsite'.
Hell I'd love to see insanely efficient homes and cars.
But I'm not willing to pay MORE from the car or home than the amount of money I'd save by just gettin' the 'regular' version.
and neither is any other American, outside of the eco-warrior fringeoids.
I will admit tho…
How cool would it be to have a bunch of panels in the backyard.
And all my stuff in the house runs on DC voltage.
And my yearly power costs are cut to a tenth of what I now pay.
You’ve seen the half buried ‘earth homes’.
They can stay cool in the summer warm in the winter.
Cuz I show nuff ain’t gonna be running the current
220 volt 2.7 KWh A/C unit that I have now offa a bunch of
solar panels huh?
chcr
Too cute for words
Clearly then, you don't believe that the cost of oil will continue to rise? It's no stretch at all to imagine the cost of hydrocarbon based fuels passing solar technology. Might even happen in our lifetime. I doubt it but it might. Given clean air restrictions, it costs less already to build a windmill farm than to build a coal fired electric plant (of course now you've got PETA whining about bird flying into the windmills).
That's the real point, if it costs you 50,000 bucks more to build but saves you 5,000 per year then it breaks even in ten years. I agree that it's not ready yet. All the technology exists though (they can print solar cells on a modified inkjet printer, f'crisake), and just like computers, it will only get cheaper and more efficient. Every bit of technonlgy being used in your computer was invented before 1970. My first computer (TRS-80, BTW) cost three grand with all the bells and whistles. I have six computers running right now and I doubt I could get that for the lot.
BTW, I like the rammed earth houses. I think it's too wet for 'em here though.
That's the real point, if it costs you 50,000 bucks more to build but saves you 5,000 per year then it breaks even in ten years. I agree that it's not ready yet. All the technology exists though (they can print solar cells on a modified inkjet printer, f'crisake), and just like computers, it will only get cheaper and more efficient. Every bit of technonlgy being used in your computer was invented before 1970. My first computer (TRS-80, BTW) cost three grand with all the bells and whistles. I have six computers running right now and I doubt I could get that for the lot.
BTW, I like the rammed earth houses. I think it's too wet for 'em here though.