Latest poll results

[MrBishop]

Looks like the recent debate did some good for Kerry. Depending on which place that you go to, of course.

Resmussen reports has Bush at 48.6% and Kerry at 46.1%
CNN has Bush at 49% and Kerry at 47%
USA Today has them dead even at 49% each
Fox has Kerry ahead 45% to Bush's 44%
Time has Kerry ahead 51% to Bush's 44%
And the Washington post has Kerry ahead with 49% to Bush's 48%

So... who's opinion do you trust and what do you think of the results?

Link from White House

 

[HomeLAN]

Polls are all meaningless, and the majority are flawed. Elections count.

 

[MrBishop]

Polls are all meaningless, and the majority are flawed. Elections count.

Poll results sway voters decisions. If you might not have voted for Kerry because you didn't think that he had a chance, and suddenly it seems that he does...your vote might sway as well. Polls affect the undecideds, and it's the undecideds which will give you FLA and OH right now.

 

[HomeLAN]

If you're allowing something as minor as a poll result to dictate your vote, perhaps it's time to start limiting the voter rolls. That's flat-ass stupid.

 

[MrBishop]

If you're allowing something as minor as a poll result to dictate your vote, perhaps it's time to start limiting the voter rolls. That's flat-ass stupid.

We're talking about the 'average voter' herre...you might just be right!

People use all sorts of input when deciding their votes. Everythign from comments by friends and co-workers, family pressure, the internet, new channels, radio, the opinions of their favorite stars, chicken entrails etc...

Some, I'm sure, just use the eeny-meeny-miney-mo method or, worst of all, don't vote.

The majority of people don't have the time, nor the inclination to research platforms, history, or previous decisions of all the candidates. They'll tend to fall where they always fell (I've always voted Republican therefore I will vote Republican this time) despite who is their party's candidate. Some people vote based on a single issue...the War in Iraq for instance, or Gay Marriage...and ignore the economy, or education,of foreign policy etc...

Can you blame people for it? Getting serious information, digging through the morass of BS out there , spindoctoring, mud-slinging etc...to get to the real issues and the real ideology (pros and cons) of the individual candidates and their running-mates is a lot of work. Avoid the work and vote for the the winner, or the guy who's in place, or to get the sitting president out of office gets to be more important than the real issues.

It's stupid...but that's voters for you...and also the main reason why president-wannabes still kiss babies and visit old-folx homes. Makes them seem nice, and family men, and ... all that BS. Kissing babies doesn't say anything about your stance on Missile Defence, or AIDS, or Welfare etc...

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Kerry is in far more trouble then you will hear, not to say that bush is not in some trouble. The media will play anything to boost Kerry and people are swayed by what the media say's/

 

[MrBishop]

Kerry is in far more trouble then you will hear, not to say that bush is not in some trouble. The media will play anything to boost Kerry and people are swayed by what the media say's/

Exactly my point...and Polls are media releases.

 

[HomeLAN]

We're talking about the 'average voter' herre...you might just be right!

People use all sorts of input when deciding their votes. Everythign from comments by friends and co-workers, family pressure, the internet, new channels, radio, the opinions of their favorite stars, chicken entrails etc...

Some, I'm sure, just use the eeny-meeny-miney-mo method or, worst of all, don't vote.

That last isn't worst of all. If you're using eenie-meenie-miney-mo or chicken entrials to choose, I'd just as soon you passed on the experience. Just don't bitch about the results after people smarter than you have made a rational choice.

The majority of people don't have the time, nor the inclination to research platforms, history, or previous decisions of all the candidates.

Then you've failed in a major civic duty.

They'll tend to fall where they always fell (I've always voted Republican therefore I will vote Republican this time) despite who is their party's candidate. Some people vote based on a single issue...the War in Iraq for instance, or Gay Marriage...and ignore the economy, or education,of foreign policy etc...

Can you blame people for it?/quote]

Yes, I can.

Getting serious information, digging through the morass of BS out there , spindoctoring, mud-slinging etc...to get to the real issues and the real ideology (pros and cons) of the individual candidates and their running-mates is a lot of work. Avoid the work and vote for the the winner, or the guy who's in place, or to get the sitting president out of office gets to be more important than the real issues.

It's stupid...but that's voters for you...and also the main reason why president-wannabes still kiss babies and visit old-folx homes. Makes them seem nice, and family men, and ... all that BS. Kissing babies doesn't say anything about your stance on Missile Defence, or AIDS, or Welfare etc...

Too much work to research a decision that will affect you for 2, 4, or 6 years (depending on the office), eh? Still gonna have your input on my life by casting that ill-informed vote, though, aren't ya? There ought to be a qualifying test to vote. Yes, I know that was outlawed in the attempt to kill racism in southern elections, but bringing it back might do a hell of a lot more good than harm.

The way I see it, you need to have half a brain to vote, and you need to vote to be able to bitch about gov't. That cuts way down on asinine political conversations as well.

 

[brownjenkins]

Fox has Kerry ahead 45% to Bush's 44%

So... who's opinion do you trust and what do you think of the results?

have to go with the 'fair and balanced'

 

[catocom]

Poll results sway voters decisions. If you might not have voted for Kerry because you didn't think that he had a chance, and suddenly it seems that he does...your vote might sway as well. Polls affect the undecideds, and it's the undecideds which will give you FLA and OH right now.

That might hold more weight if the popular vote decided it, but the
electoral college thing cancels it out in some cases. For example....
Here in GA I believe GW is going to be landslide. I don't even think 1000 votes
will make a difference. So why should it matter here...?

BTW I personally would like to see the electoral colleges disappear, and go
strictly to popular vote. To me that is "real" democracy.

 

[MrBishop]

Then you've failed in a major civic duty.

Too much work to research a decision that will affect you for 2, 4, or 6 years (depending on the office), eh? Still gonna have your input on my life by casting that ill-informed vote, though, aren't ya? There ought to be a qualifying test to vote. Yes, I know that was outlawed in the attempt to kill racism in southern elections, but bringing it back might do a hell of a lot more good than harm.

The way I see it, you need to have half a brain to vote, and you need to vote to be able to bitch about gov't. That cuts way down on asinine political conversations as well.

I can't vote in your election, but I still retain my right to complain and the American GVT because I know that decisions made in your country will affect mine, as its likely to affect the rest of the world. I have lots of time to do some research and amass huge amounts of information, and despite that, still don't understand all the permutations of all that's been said and done by both candidates. When you think about the unwashed masses who don't have access or have a life and can't spare the hours of research to make an informed decision, despite their 'civic duty' or the effect of their decision on their lives, you begin to see the reality of voting and results.

You need more than half a brain to vote...you also need the access and time to apply that half a brain to an informed decision.

We're also talking about a 51% participation rate...so not voting has a greater impact than you might think.

 

[HomeLAN]

I can't vote in your election, but I still retain my right to complain and the American GVT because I know that decisions made in your country will affect mine, as its likely to affect the rest of the world.

You're right, you can't vote here. That buys you somewhat of a pass.

I have lots of time to do some research and amass huge amounts of information, and despite that, still don't understand all the permutations of all that's been said and done by both candidates.

Neither do I, but you tried. I bet you could even name your elected representatives, right? If so, you're probably not who I'm talking about.

When you think about the unwashed masses who don't have access or have a life and can't spare the hours of research to make an informed decision, despite their 'civic duty' or the effect of their decision on their lives, you begin to see the reality of voting and results.

Then knock the poor souls off the voting rolls. One less thing to take up their already over-stretched time.

You need more than half a brain to vote...you also need the access and time to apply that half a brain to an informed decision.

Or you need to rearrange your priorities to make the time. C'mon, man, you could get at least a decent overview of all the candidates in about 1 day over a public library internet connection. Is it really that fucking hard to carve out 8 hours in the 4 months leading to election day?

We're also talking about a 51% participation rate...so not voting has a greater impact than you might think.

Under my plan it might be less - but those who did vote would have a fucking clue. As it stands, that low rate might be for the best. Just don't bitch at me about gov't if you couldn't be bothered to do this right.

 

[HomeLAN]

That might hold more weight if the popular vote decided it, but the
electoral college thing cancels it out in some cases. For example....
Here in GA I believe GW is going to be landslide. I don't even think 1000 votes
will make a difference. So why should it matter here...?

BTW I personally would like to see the electoral colleges disappear, and go
strictly to popular vote. To me that is "real" democracy.

Psst. We ain't a democracy. Never have been. Never were intended to be. We're a republic.

 

[catocom]

Psst. We ain't a democracy. Never have been. Never were intended to be. We're a republic.

Oh yeah I forget sometimes.
You'll have to forgive me as I was born in Ill.
I'm converted now though.

 

[MrBishop]

Or you need to rearrange your priorities to make the time. C'mon, man, you could get at least a decent overview of all the candidates in about 1 day over a public library internet connection. Is it really that fucking hard to carve out 8 hours in the 4 months leading to election day?.

Aah...here's the rub. Its not too hard...but its easier to just watch the news, argue with friends and peers and make your decision that way.

Personally, I prefer to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all (research trying to find some truth).. but its not for everyone. A lot of people don't even like politicians, or reading about them...their eyes glaze over when the topic arises or they fall back to their emotional reasoning. It's not enough.

I'm trying to guage how many OTCers rely on polls to help them refine their decisions. I'm sure that many on here wouldn't change their minds as to which party they vote for if it was proved with 8x10 color photos hand delivered to their door that their candidate was caught gang-raping 5 year old boys. They vote party, not person. The reverse must be true as well. Kerry makes a better public-speaker/debater...vote for Kerry.

The poll results show that at least.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[freako104]

Looks like the recent debate did some good for Kerry. Depending on which place that you go to, of course.

Resmussen reports has Bush at 48.6% and Kerry at 46.1%
CNN has Bush at 49% and Kerry at 47%
USA Today has them dead even at 49% each
Fox has Kerry ahead 45% to Bush's 44%
Time has Kerry ahead 51% to Bush's 44%
And the Washington post has Kerry ahead with 49% to Bush's 48%

So... who's opinion do you trust and what do you think of the results?

Link from White House

None. The stats can be twisted around and such. and like Homey said polls dont really matter much.

 

[HomeLAN]

Aah...here's the rub. Its not too hard...but its easier to just watch the news, argue with friends and peers and make your decision that way.

Personally, I prefer to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all (research trying to find some truth).. but its not for everyone.

Then those for whom it isn't need to keep their ignorant little fingers out of major decisions.

 

[MrBishop]

Then those for whom it isn't need to keep their ignorant little fingers out of major decisions.

Aah...but is it the responsibility of the politicians to make their message clearer and more digesteable and thus appeal to a greater portion of the population which they are meat to represent, or for people to learn to chew harder on the gristle which they are served and be happy for anything thrown onto their plates?

 

[HomeLAN]

Can't we have both?

BTW, I'm gessing by your language up there that you'd prefer cutting it into small bites for the lowest common denominator to digest. I like my idea better. Keep stupidity out of the voting booth.

 

[MrBishop]

Can't we have both?

BTW, I'm gessing by your language up there that you'd prefer cutting it into small bites for the lowest common denominator to digest. I like my idea better. Keep stupidity out of the voting booth.

Nope...I'd prefer to have a smarter population in general, but reality keeps telling me about how stupid 'people' really are.

I'd prefer more transparency in political platforms. As a President wanna-be, you can say "I will create more jobs" - but it'd be nice to know exactly how s/he would do that and wether they mean more jobs in their country or in China

Maybe a nice web site with 200 questions on it re: public policy and foreign relations. All candidates answer the same questions and the answers are available to all. Max number of words per answer and the candidate has to write the answer all by themselves. Now that'd be interesting.