Like I said; you can't build alternative energy because the greens won't let you

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
I was in CA when Prop. 22 hit the fan, led by Feinstein, and millions of acres of desert was placed off limits to all use whatsoever -- no mining, no recreational use -- nothing.

Now, here she is again and she wants to make another 500,000 acres off limits for -- a tortoise. Lord knows how much more important a stinkin' tortoise is than the progress of mankind -- especially when the development would not harm the animal in any way whatsoever.

SOURCE

Feinstein: Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels
Sen. Dianne Feinstein said development of solar and wind facilities in California's Mojave Desert would violate the spirit of what conservationists had intended when they donated much of the land to the public


FOXNews.com

Saturday, March 21, 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) -- California's Mojave Desert may seem ideally suited for solar energy production, but concern over what several proposed projects might do to the aesthetics of the region and its tortoise population is setting up a potential clash between conservationists and companies seeking to develop renewable energy.

Nineteen companies have submitted applications to build solar or wind facilities on a parcel of 500,000 desert acres, but Sen. Dianne Feinstein said Friday such development would violate the spirit of what conservationists had intended when they donated much of the land to the public.

Feinstein said Friday she intends to push legislation that would turn the land into a national monument, which would allow for existing uses to continue while preventing future development.

The Wildlands Conservancy orchestrated the government's purchase of the land between 1999-2004. It negotiated a discount sale from the real estate arm of the former Santa Fe and Southern Pacific Railroad and then contributed $40 million to help pay for the purchase. David Myers, the conservancy's executive director, said the solar projects would do great harm to the region's desert tortoise population.

"It would destroy the entire Mojave Desert ecosystem," said David Myers, executive director of The Wildlands Conservancy.

Feinstein said the lands in question were donated or purchased with the intent that they would be protected forever. But the Bureau of Land Management considers the land now open to all types of development, except mining. That policy led the state to consider large swaths of the land for future renewable energy production.

"This is unacceptable," Feinstein said in a letter to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar. "I urge you to direct the BLM to suspend any further consideration of leases to develop former railroad lands for renewable energy or for any other purpose."

In a speech last year, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger complained about environmental concerns slowing down the approval of solar plants in California.

"If we cannot put solar power plants in the Mojave desert, I don't know where the hell we can put it," Schwarzenegger said at Yale University.

But Karen Douglas, chairman of the California Energy Commission, said Feinstein's proposal could be a "win-win" for energy and conservation. The governor's office said Douglas was speaking on the administration's behalf.

"The opportunity we see in the Feinstein bill is to jump-start our own efforts to find the best sites for development and to come up with a broader conservation plan that mitigates the impact of the development," Douglas said.

Douglas said that if the national monument lines were drawn without consideration of renewable energy then a conflict was likely, but it's early enough in the planning process that she's confident the state will be able to get more solar and wind projects up and running without hurting the environment.

"We think we can do both," Douglas said. "We think this is an opportunity to accelerate both."

Greg Miller of the Bureau of Land Management said there are 14 solar energy and five wind energy projects that have submitted applications seeking to develop on what's referred to as the former Catellus lands. None of the projects are close to being approved, he said.

The land lies in the southeast corner of California, between the existing Mojave National Preserve on the north and Joshua Tree National Park on the south.

"They all have to go through a rigorous environmental analysis now," Miller said. "It will be at best close to two years out before we get some of these grants approved."

Feinstein's spokesman, Gil Duran, said the senator looks forward to working with the governor and the Interior Department on the issue.

"There's plenty of room in America's deserts for the bold expansion of renewable energy projects," Duran said.
 
Teddy say sNIMBY to wind & Dianae hates solar.

They must hang with Al "power user" Gore
 
Sure you can, I've seen a few giant wind farms built.
And the animal rights wackos want that shut down because they kill birds.

The fact remains that no matter what you do to try to please them, one group or another will be upset at your best efforts.
 
And the animal rights wackos want that shut down because they kill birds.

Nah, the big one near Palm Springs has been pretty good and there's not much complaint about birds.

The fact remains that no matter what you do to try to please them, one group or another will be upset at your best efforts.

Yep, including groups that you support.
 
Nah, the big one near Palm Springs has been pretty good and there's not much complaint about birds.

You must be reading THE SPIN.

The tour operator says the number of birds killed yearly by windmills is insignificant when you take into account that more than 50 million birds are wiped out by automobiles and feline predators.

There are OTHER PROBLEMS also.

Yep, including groups that you support.

The NRA is against windmills? Silly me. I thought they were for firearms.
 
If it's a reserve, wouldn't it be the same if they built stuff in yellowstone?

Yellowstone is a reserve and there cannot be these types of projects built there. Yellowstone is already in place.

The effort here is to make an area a preserve with the express intent of stopping these types of projects; and for what? A tortoise which grows to no more than about 12" high and can crawl under anything that would be built in its habitat. The tortoise is being used as a tool to stop progress.
 
Yellowstone is a reserve and there cannot be these types of projects built there. Yellowstone is already in place.

The effort here is to make an area a preserve with the express intent of stopping these types of projects; and for what? A tortoise which grows to no more than about 12" high and can crawl under anything that would be built in its habitat. The tortoise is being used as a tool to stop progress.

So mojave is not currently a preserve?

Who is this woman? Sounds like something that should be brought up for serious debate. I am against making an area unlivable for it's native species, but if solar panels will not seriously impede these turtles (if they are the main arguement for blocking the solar farms) then they should build them in designated areas.I do not think anyone wants to turn the whole desert into a solar farm.
 
Diane Feinstein is the woman who was elevated to Mayor of San Francisco after the murders of Councilman Harvey Milk (The subject of the recent movie "Milk" starring Sean Penn) and Mayor Moscone.

She is a big anti-firearms advocate and has been since taking office.

She subsequently ran for California governor against Pete Wilson and lost because she stated she would raise taxes and Wilson stated that he would not. Wilson lied.

She then ran for, and won, a seat in the U.S. Senate and she has been fucking up the entire nation ever since.

As senator, she was the biggest advocate for the CA Dsesert Protection Act which placed several million acres of desert off limits to recreation, development, and mining -- especially mining.

There have been ACCUSATIONS of insider dealing as the lands in question were traded with a gold mining company which benefitted Feinstein's husband through his real estate dealings.

Through a complex series of land exchanges, Catellus Corporation, a subsidiary of Santa Fe Pacific, will receive land that contains some of the richest gold deposits in the world.

In exchange, the public gets seventy-four widely scattered tracts of desert which have found no economic use in more than a century. These properties will be maintained at public expense; Secretary of Interior Bruce Babbitt claims resources within the National Park Service are available for this to be accomplished. In actuality, Congressional figures show that the National Park Service currently faces a 37-year back-log in construction funding, a 250-year back-log for land acquisition, and a short-fall of $400 million for existing park operation and maintenance. Catellus owns over 400,000 acres of worthless land in the California Mojave Desert.

This land was obtained by Santa Fe Pacific and its predecessor railroad companies a part of the "checkerboard" railroad lands awarded for the building of the transcontinental railroad. Santa Fe transferred these lands which have been for sale for over 100 years, over to its subsidiary, Catellus Corp. In the land swap, Catellus Corp. will receive land from decommissioned military bases. One of the bases will be the Chocolate Mountain gunnery range. Unbeknownst to the public, inside the range is the world's richest gold rift zone. Geologists estimate that the gold contained in this zone is worth between $40 to $100 billion. These are surface gold deposits which are more profitable to mine than the one-mile deep gold deposits in South Africa.

...

According to public records, CALPERS investment in Cattelus was through Bay Area Partnership, subsequently changed to Bay Area Real Estate Associates, which is itself comprised of JMB Realty and CALPERS. Efforts to determine all of the participants in the investors' group behind JMB Realty and Bay Area Real Estate Associates so far have been unsuccessful, but at least some appear to have business ties with Senator Feinstein's husband.

None-the-less, allegations continue that Senator Feinstein as well as California Speaker of the House Willie Brown and a wide variety of San Francisco special interest groups would therefore benefit financially.

More directly, does Diane Feinstein, as a former employee of the City of San Francisco, Willie Brown and other California politicians maintain a CALPERS retirement account?

Repeated requests to Senator Feinstein's office for the disclosure or denial of any direct relationship between the senator and her husband and CALPERS, JMB Reality, Bay Area Real Estate Associates and Cattelus Development Corporation have been met with evasions and non- answers.

Then came THIS PROPOSITION in 2008. This proposition did not pass. Read the part entitled "Provisions in the initiative" and you will see that it would have required development of solar power primarily in the desert. This will head off any future development of the desert aresas for solar power. The area has no other use. There is no water. There is no useful flora. There is no useful fauna. There is no infrastructure. It is the unfriendliest area on Earth to human habitation.

So now she wants to make several more million acres of desert off limits and for no other reason than to keep a useless area pristinely useless. The excuse for this is to keep the environment of the California Desert Tortoise from being "destroyed".
 
Well, if windmill 20 is going to be built on the EXACT SPOT the car goes... and if it's a working power plant so they'll probably not let people go out there to "park"...
 
I see the wind thing as a chance to 'better' develop some land that is pretty
uninhabitable.
Do it like the old crop sharing.
 
Well, if windmill 20 is going to be built on the EXACT SPOT the car goes... and if it's a working power plant so they'll probably not let people go out there to "park"...

Well, it's been a long time since I had to "park" but as I recall they really didn't "let" you "park" anywhere. ;)
 
They even stopped the cruising here many years back.
No loitering, unless you are a day laborer.:alienhuh:
 
Well, it's been a long time since I had to "park" but as I recall they really didn't "let" you "park" anywhere. ;)

True... although if there's a power plant out there, there's liklely to be someone out there to keep an eye on it and call the Sheriff out there. As it is now... if you're out there and you see a pair of headlights, there's a 99 percent chance it's someone else that had wanted to use that spot.
 
I see the wind thing as a chance to 'better' develop some land that is pretty
uninhabitable.
Do it like the old crop sharing.

If I recall correctly, someone said that if you wanted to fully energize NYC with wind...you'd have to turn Connectiut into a wind farm.
 
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