LUIS!
- Thread starter Jeslek
- Start date
AlladinSane
Well-Known Member
You really can't look at the rest of the world heh? And I said they are closer to starvation than to the idea of prosperity you gave(mansion and corvettes). I'm saying the way you put it, it's sophism. Most of african and asian countries and ALL of South America is formed by capitalist countries. Most of people here live in poverty. I'm talking about 90+%. Are you saying all these people are lazy? Much of them work hard and work on weekends without getting paid. Most of them work in low-level jobs and don't have perspective of changing their lives because they can't afford to study. It's more ordinary than not this condition in the capitalist coutries...LastLegionary said:
we will not see it........but capitalism will fail, no matter how hard you fight for it.
the gap between poor and rich is bigger every year, not only within the country, but within countries: the rich country gets richer and the poor country gets poorer.
Capitalism concentrates the wealth in minorities.
the gap between poor and rich is bigger every year, not only within the country, but within countries: the rich country gets richer and the poor country gets poorer.
Capitalism concentrates the wealth in minorities.
AlladinSane
Well-Known Member
You're right we will not see it! And I believe that opposed of what Marx stated, the transition will be gradual. But I'm also predicting a great conflict in the years to come that will make humankind rethink the way things are being dealed today...
Jeslek
Banned
No I can't, most of them are socialists.AlladinSane said:
Hm, South Africa for one is a very nice socialistic state. Limited capitalism and its getting thinner and thinner. Lets take Zimbabwe too. Shit country. Mugabe is taking from the rich to give to the poor and as a result no one has food. And take Argentine. That is not capitalism. In fact, most of the world is not nearly as capitalistic and right-winged as the United States.
The poorest of poor in the United States can have basic cable. Our poor are rich compared to the rest of the world, all thanks to Capitalism and Conservatism.
Yes, that is unfortunate. I'm from a third world country though. I moved to the US and Canada because I believe in free enterprise, capitalism, and want to get rich by working hard. Where else in the world can you do that? Most places tax you so badly its impossible to get rich.
Change is not overnight. It took the United States a long time to reach this level of prosperity. A long time ago our chief industry was agriculture. We slowly raised ourselves up, by hard work, a good capitalistic system, and a limited government. Now we are more services and technology oriented, and yes there is bigger money in that than agriculture. But it didn't happen over night.
A huge part of the world has shit governments that control and control and control. Huge part of Africa consists of dictators. I don't know much about South America unfortunately, so I can't talk on that. Adopt a logical form of limited government as set out by Locke, Hamilton, Jefferson, et al. Then encourage competition, and watch your society flourish in prosperity.
Question: How many telephone companies are in YOUR country? Is it or was it ever government controlled? Same with television. How many channels do you get that are not of US or other western country origin? Is it government controlled like it used to be in Britain?
Government control is evil. The United States is living proof that pure capitalistic, free enterprise, right wing society gives the biggest benefit. Our poor is richer than most people in other countries. Why? Come on socialists, why? Why is our GDP over $36,000 per person but most countries in Europe barely break $25,000? And in other countries it barely comes to $15,000? China is $100. It seems the more socialistic you are the more your Gross Domestic Product drops.
I'm sorry, but I'm a capitalist, and a right winger. I want to work hard to get rich, and the United States and probably Canada will be my countries I will do that in.
about GDP per capita, it is relative, a while ago i was talking with Justin and ris about it, i was surprised by the ammounts of money people earn in the UK, however big bucks is not the same as standard of living. A middle class familiy has an income of UK$60,000 (correct me if i'm wrong), while a middle class family in Mexico have an income of MX$100,000
The standard of living is the same, i bet.
The "buying power" (aka acquisitive power
) is different from country to country. Numbers are tricky.
The standard of living is the same, i bet.
The "buying power" (aka acquisitive power
) is different from country to country. Numbers are tricky.
Jeslek
Banned
No it is not. Its measured in the same currency and is always the total goods produced by a country. It has nothing to do with living standards. GDP per capita is the total amount of goods produced divided by the number of people. From that list, its clear that the USA is the most productive country in the world (ok be serious, exclude countries with 5 people ok?).Luis G said:
ris
New Member
mugabe is not a great example, he is redistributing wealth to his mates, not to the poor.
what the us has that is different from developing countries is a stable democratic system. when corruption is rife [as in many burgeoning capitalist states] the system does not work because the pursuit of wealth by those at the top comes at the detriment of the rest of the country.
what the us has that is different from developing countries is a stable democratic system. when corruption is rife [as in many burgeoning capitalist states] the system does not work because the pursuit of wealth by those at the top comes at the detriment of the rest of the country.
ris
New Member
the us might be the most productive by gdp, but when the us government is fixing import taxes that are deemed illegal when other countries use them the purity of the capitalist system is surely undermined.
it is a hyprocracy - the us tells developing countries to adopt free trade and will not deal with them if the apply such duties but does the same itself. the system works great but only when you move the goalposts.
it is a hyprocracy - the us tells developing countries to adopt free trade and will not deal with them if the apply such duties but does the same itself. the system works great but only when you move the goalposts.
Jeslek
Banned
Hm, I don't see taxation or import tariffs when I import stuff into New York from Maine. I don't really know too much about international trade, so I can't comment. All I know is that there is no taxation when I import stuff from other states. 
I never said capitalism needs to be applied globally, nor will I ever support it. Every nation has a sovereign government and can decide whether or not it wants to tax imports or exports.
But I'm not going to argue with you. I live (or rather soon will) in a great country with a very high standard of living, most freedom in the world, biggest economy, and all that. We must be doing something right eh? And no, while I care for other people in the world, I'm not going to help them unless my neighbors don't need help. I will help MY country first, MY people first, MY family first, MY friends first before I go mess in another country.
And Luis, it doesn't matter if $1 buys more in one country or another, the GDP is worldwide and what the world pays.
I never said capitalism needs to be applied globally, nor will I ever support it. Every nation has a sovereign government and can decide whether or not it wants to tax imports or exports.But I'm not going to argue with you.
I live (or rather soon will) in a great country with a very high standard of living, most freedom in the world, biggest economy, and all that. We must be doing something right eh? And no, while I care for other people in the world, I'm not going to help them unless my neighbors don't need help. I will help MY country first, MY people first, MY family first, MY friends first before I go mess in another country.And Luis, it doesn't matter if $1 buys more in one country or another, the GDP is worldwide and what the world pays.
Indeed it is the poor. His mates aren't rich are they? OK lets look at Rwanda, Sudan, Niger, Chad, Congo, etc. Same thing. Dictators and socialists. Take from those that have and give to those that don't.
Yes indeed. All the writings have been there for 300+ years. Why doesn't some other countries incorporate them?! Why do WE need to babysit the world?
Of course it is hypocracy. Is that a bad thing? I mean we ARE looking after OURSELVES, not the fucking world. Is that a shocking concept?
Deemed illegal where? That indicates some higher authority, and there is no higher authority than the US government. Sorry, that point is moot.
ris
New Member
mugabe's actions are not for the benefit of the general poor of the country, therefore the redistribution of wealth is unequal and unlikely to help the country. he is a good example of a poor democratic system and corruption will most likely damage the growth of the country.
the observation of poor democratic system with regard to the us model is not a criticism of the us, but rather an attempt to understand why their capitalist dreams are not working. i made no request of the us to fix their problems.
the illegalities of the international trade agreements are quite straightforward. the us and other western countries agre to help with development and infrastructure grants and loans if the country opens up to free trade. if they use import duties and taxes then the grants are withdrawn. basically the free-trade is put over as the panacea to all ills, and the success of the us and other countries used as example.
the world trade organisation, world bank and general agreements on trade all place an emphasis on free-trade and capitalism.
the hypocracy is the do as we say not as we do. want to be as rich as us? free trade is the answer and we'll help you. oh, but we don't conform to it. the import duties on steel are going to result in the levvy of £5bn in sanctions, as agreed by the wto i believe.
if the steel taxes are ok then you can't agree with capitalism as they contradict the principal of government non-involvement. you claim that you say 'I never said capitalism needs to be applied globally, nor will I ever support it.' but you criticise socialism and use capitalism and the us as an exemplar of how things should be.
the observation of poor democratic system with regard to the us model is not a criticism of the us, but rather an attempt to understand why their capitalist dreams are not working. i made no request of the us to fix their problems.
the illegalities of the international trade agreements are quite straightforward. the us and other western countries agre to help with development and infrastructure grants and loans if the country opens up to free trade. if they use import duties and taxes then the grants are withdrawn. basically the free-trade is put over as the panacea to all ills, and the success of the us and other countries used as example.
the world trade organisation, world bank and general agreements on trade all place an emphasis on free-trade and capitalism.
the hypocracy is the do as we say not as we do. want to be as rich as us? free trade is the answer and we'll help you. oh, but we don't conform to it. the import duties on steel are going to result in the levvy of £5bn in sanctions, as agreed by the wto i believe.
if the steel taxes are ok then you can't agree with capitalism as they contradict the principal of government non-involvement. you claim that you say 'I never said capitalism needs to be applied globally, nor will I ever support it.' but you criticise socialism and use capitalism and the us as an exemplar of how things should be.
Jeslek
Banned
I won't argue further. I've made my points and if you still want to live in your communal houses and share the wealth with everyone, drive the same car as everyone, well, thats you. I'm going back to my house and two cars and be happy and productive and continue to be the big bad American everyone is so jealous off (although they won't admit it).
I've made my points and if you still want to live in your communal houses and share the wealth with everyone, drive the same car as everyone, well, thats you. I'm going back to my house and two cars and be happy and productive and continue to be the big bad American everyone is so jealous off (although they won't admit it). 
Justintime
Guest
hmm Jealous? i am happy, i make good dosh, i live a good life, no ones shot me or at me, no one wants me dead so far, no one has me as a target for thier ungodly attacks (yet, but due to involvement with America they might) i live and am happy, jealous?
Justintime
Guest
Yes, fuckin lovin it.