Makes me so mad... yet full of sorrow!

[chcr]

Humanity either controls itself & rises above the animal world or it sinks down & never surpasses even the lowly worm.

Hahahahahaha. Keep hoping, Gonz. You have been watching the current presidential race?

 

[brownjenkins]

Humanity either controls itself & rises above the animal world or it sinks down & never surpasses even the lowly worm.

i'd say we've got a bit on the worm, but we still have a lot in common with the rest of the primates

so am i to assume you'd prefer abstinance-only teaching... or none at all?

 

[Gonz]

None of the above.

I prefer teaching biology & allowing the parents to do their job.

in 1949, when condoms weren't allowed in school, the pill was uninvented & morality played an important role in the home & society compared to 1997...

Which had the fewest STD's?
Which had the fewest abortions?
Which had the fewest out of wedlock births?
Which had the fewest adoptions?
Which had teh fewest shotgun weddings?
Which had the fewest unwed moms?
Which had the fewest welfare families?
per capita...

 

[Oz]

None of the above.

I prefer teaching biology & allowing the parents to do their job.

in 1949, when condoms weren't allowed in school, the pill was uninvented & morality played an important role in the home & society compared to 1997...

Which had the fewest STD's?
Which had the fewest abortions?
Which had the fewest out of wedlock births?
Which had the fewest adoptions?
Which had teh fewest shotgun weddings?
Which had the fewest unwed moms?
Which had the fewest welfare families?
per capita...

wow, mebbe I'm being too presumtious here.....but your current wife is the only person you've ever had sex with Gonz? You were both virgins on your wedding night?

 

[Gonz]

No. Actually I was quite the slut.

Interesting to see where all this happiness has gotten us...

your current wife

In such a place that we need adjectives to describe our spouses.

 

[Oz]

No. Actually I was quite the slut.

*Nods approvingly*

Interesting to see where all this happiness has gotten us...

In such a place that we need adjectives to describe our spouses.

Dude, not to look on the black side or anything.....but people lose spouses for other reasons than just divorce. I don't know enough about ya personal life to assume this is the first time yer've been wed

 

[Gonz]

Until the last decade or so you would have assumed it. Quite the change from centuries of not needing this particular social habit.

 

[Oz]

Until the last decade or so you would have assumed it. Quite the change from centuries of not needing this particular social habit.

I would? You mean to tell me that until the last decade or so not one young person lost their spouse to death? Or if they did, none of them remarried?


Please Gonz, give some of us the credit for looking at the world without your percieved view of how should we do it

 

[Gonz]

Yes you would. Death & divorce were the exception, not the rule.

I said that there was some way to do it? I thought I just pointed out a modern truism.

 

[Oz]

Yes you would. Death & divorce were the exception, not the rule.

Excuse me? Do you know anything about my life prior to my joining OTC? No, you don't......don't ever accuse me of making some kind of "Gonz social faux pas" I stated my reasons for using the term "current wife" if you have a problem with my use of that term......then you really have to understand that not all of us live in a little imagined "comfort zone" from which they view the world.

 

[Gonz]

I needn't know squat about your life prior to or since. I know how society is programmed. I've watched the evolution happen. I've been part of it. You've been programmed.

In all fairness, the exact word "YOU" may be too specific. Not every single creature acts the same. It is highly likely that the specific you would have followed the generic YOU though.

 

[Oz]

I needn't know squat about your life prior to or since. I know how society is programmed. I've watched the evolution happen. I've been part of it. You've been programmed.

Have I Gonz? ......... you have a lot of knowledge and experience of Northern England? You can instantly define that my entire life experiences have molded me to a stereotypical part of society, and the environment that I've lived in has also so conveniently shaped me to fit into yours?

In all fairness, the exact word "YOU" may be too specific. Not every single creature acts the same. It is highly likely that the specific you would have followed the generic YOU though.

No no.....please, generalise away.....it's reasuring to know that you can judge me as part of you definition of "a whole" ....... it must be so comforting for you to know that nothing I do or say is my choice or action, but is a predetermination from your own experiences, observations and my own social environment.

 

[Gonz]

Well damn....struck a nerve?

My commenting on 3 choice words has gone from my commentary on societal ills to my judging you personally?

 

[brownjenkins]

None of the above.

I prefer teaching biology & allowing the parents to do their job.

in 1949, when condoms weren't allowed in school, the pill was uninvented & morality played an important role in the home & society compared to 1997...

Which had the fewest STD's?
Which had the fewest abortions?
Which had the fewest out of wedlock births?
Which had the fewest adoptions?
Which had teh fewest shotgun weddings?
Which had the fewest unwed moms?
Which had the fewest welfare families?
per capita...

i think the "morality" of 1949 had a lot more factors involved as to why things were the way they were... way too much to go into... besides the fact that you just can't turn the clock back 50 years... we live in the here and now and have to do the best we can to make it a positive environment... as opposed to lamenting some fairy tale existance that just doesn't (and maybe never did) exist

that said, while i'd like to see sex ed and contraception more available, i wouldn't be against parents 'opting out' for their child... the one who care enough to do that probably don't need it... it's the ones that don't that do

i'd like to see parents do their job to, but i accept the fact that there are many who do not, or who could use a bit of assistance

 

[Gonz]

we live in the here and now and have to do the best we can to make it a positive environment...

Yep. I have no desire to return to a the mess that was 1949. Nor 1960 or 1990. However, you failed to specifically answer my query. Thus giving creedance to the practical & obvious metaphor I am presenting. More condoms & government taught sexual education have already proven to be a failure.

Changing the current scenario is a must. The past only failed when it was discarded.

 

[Oz]

Well damn....struck a nerve?

Not really...was quiet on the forums

My commenting on 3 choice words has gone from my commentary on societal ills to my judging you personally?

Can you think of anything more personal than prejudging someone? I sure as hell can't.....

 

[Gonz]

Prejudging? It must be a large tingly nerve. I never said YOU did a damned thing.

Interesting to see where all this happiness has gotten us...

your current wife

In such a place that we need adjectives to describe our spouses.

Again, I'll point out that you (the generic sense) would have never used the adjective current in previous generations when describing a spouse. The assumption was one marriage...one spouse. The choice of use of the word current implies a probability of there being another or perhaps many. That is a symptom of a modern day problem.

 

[brownjenkins]

Yep. I have no desire to return to a the mess that was 1949. Nor 1960 or 1990. However, you failed to specifically answer my query. Thus giving creedance to the practical & obvious metaphor I am presenting. More condoms & government taught sexual education have already proven to be a failure.

it's never been done anywhere near what i would suggest in the US, so you can't really say it's been proven to be a failure... for one thing, while i know there have been programs here and there that hand out condoms, i've never heard of any that give free access to things like depo and the pill, both of which are much more likely to be used

and on the education front, at least in my time (mid-80s), sex ed was basically nuts and bolts and absolutely nothing on the social/emotional end of things

it's also a long-term change in attitude... not something you try for a year or three and say, 'sorry, not working'... sex and emotional relations are the most important issues kids have to deal with ages 13-18 and should be treated as just as, if not more important, than pure book learning

 

[Gonz]

free access

Free? Why? One of the prerequisites should be responsibility.

sex and emotional relations are the most important issues kids have to deal with ages 13-18

Now I know you're high.

When sex was dirty there were fewer of all the above stated issues. When sex was dirty kids got better educations because thinking with their dick (or labia) was not permitted & it was especially not endorsed. Somewhere between Truman & Clinton was a happy medium. Everything post Kennedy has gotten worse.

 

[BeardofPants]

I don't know what you're smoking gonz, but could I have some? Teen pregnancy has always been a rampant problem. The difference between now, and fifty years ago? Society is more open about it. We don't send women to baby farms so they can secretly give birth.