Minding more than one's own business

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
An official with Winchester, England is complaining because it’s sister city in Virginia has an image of the Confederate flag on its state seal, reports the Winchester Star.

The councilman in Winchester says the image on the seal of Winchester, Virginia “celebrates slavery” and he wants it changed.

“I’ve always been disturbed by the Stars and Bars up there,” said City Councilor Ray Love, a Liberal Democrat on the English board, adding that the seal from Winchester, Va., hangs on a wall where his council meets.

“We trade with the town of Giessen, in Germany. I find it as offensive to have the Stars and Bars as if they had a swastika on their coat of arms,” Love said.
Though Love has not proposed severing his city’s relationship with its American counterpart, the issue threatens to open a rift between the two cities.

Winchester signed a “twinning” agreement with its English counterpart two years ago.

Love told the paper that he finds American culture “frustrating.” He complains that we have little international news in our media, saying Americans are “a bit insular” and that the South is still “way behind.”

Anyone who wants to demonstrate just how insular and backward Southern Americans are can reach Mr. Love at [email protected].

**end**

Another loudmouth with more lung power than brain power. It never ends.

So you don't like it, sir? Jolly good. Don't like it. We dislike a lot of things too. We don't sit around and demand you change them to suit our personal misconceptions. But you feel compelled to so act. Right-o.

Guess it never occurred to this bloke that the city of Winchester VA has zero control over the State Seal of Virginia, huh? Maybe in return we should hold the chap personally liable for any and all offensive press from the Mother Country. We can start with blaming him for the Spice Girls...

[/SnP composing educational email written with utmost respect for this gent to read over tea, chock full of supportive links and other things he won't bother to explore. Can't be changing our minds this late in the game now, can we old boy?]
 
Hmm... Didn't seem to have bothered anyone when they made the agreement. :shrug:
 
He's probably just now been "enlightened" as to the "monstrous symbolism" of the Stars and Bars.

Wonder if I should send him a protest against serving room temp beer and Coca-Cola.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
He's probably just now been "enlightened" as to the "monstrous symbolism" of the Stars and Bars.

Wonder if I should send him a protest against serving room temp beer and Coca-Cola.

You've actually hit on the exact thing. People like this need to be reminded that not everyone likes everything they do either.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
An official with Winchester, England is complaining because it’s sister city in Virginia has an image of the Confederate flag on its state seal, reports the Winchester Star.

The councilman in Winchester says the image on the seal of Winchester, Virginia “celebrates slavery” and he wants it changed.

“I’ve always been disturbed by the Stars and Bars up there,” said City Councilor Ray Love, a Liberal Democrat on the English board, adding that the seal from Winchester, Va., hangs on a wall where his council meets.

“We trade with the town of Giessen, in Germany. I find it as offensive to have the Stars and Bars as if they had a swastika on their coat of arms,” Love said.
Though Love has not proposed severing his city’s relationship with its American counterpart, the issue threatens to open a rift between the two cities.

Winchester signed a “twinning” agreement with its English counterpart two years ago.

Love told the paper that he finds American culture “frustrating.” He complains that we have little international news in our media, saying Americans are “a bit insular” and that the South is still “way behind.”

Anyone who wants to demonstrate just how insular and backward Southern Americans are can reach Mr. Love at [email protected].

**end**

Another loudmouth with more lung power than brain power. It never ends.

So you don't like it, sir? Jolly good. Don't like it. We dislike a lot of things too. We don't sit around and demand you change them to suit our personal misconceptions. But you feel compelled to so act. Right-o.

Guess it never occurred to this bloke that the city of Winchester VA has zero control over the State Seal of Virginia, huh? Maybe in return we should hold the chap personally liable for any and all offensive press from the Mother Country. We can start with blaming him for the Spice Girls...

[/SnP composing educational email written with utmost respect for this gent to read over tea, chock full of supportive links and other things he won't bother to explore. Can't be changing our minds this late in the game now, can we old boy?]





though I am not a fan of the stars and bars, it is a flag. People in the South use it as heritage. People who arent even racist use it. But if he tries to get rid of it maybe we can make it even. Get rid of him too
 
I think the stars & bars are representative of a slave owning seperatist community that lost the civil war & needs to get over it. That has been said by me before,that's why I've not joined the latest fracus about it.

HOWEVER...non-American civic leaders can keep their opinoins to themselves or we'll put TRL on a letter writing campaign. :hmph:
 
so you are saying they cannot have their flag even though it is part of our history? Mark I do agree for the most part but they do have the 1st amendment as well as it is part of the South and its heritage.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
Guess it never occurred to this bloke that the city of Winchester VA has zero control over the State Seal of Virginia, huh?

wait wait... where on the Virginia State Seal is the confederate flag? Am i missing something here? I used to live in Virginia for years. Im pretty familiar with that seal.
 
thulsa its the city seal they are complaining about.

The City Seal

City Code SECTION 2-1. CITY SEAL--DESCRIBED.
There is adopted, as the seal of the City, a metallic disc, two inches in diameter with a border or outer circle, within which shall be engraved at the top of the circle, the words "City of Winchester," and at the bottom of the circle the word "Virginia." Within this circle shall be engraved a shield which shall be quartered and shall display thereon, in the upper left quarter, the Union Jack of Great Britain as it existed during the period when Winchester owed allegiance to that flag; in the upper right quarter, the flag of the Commonwealth of Virginia; in the lower left quarter, the cross and stars of the battle flag of the Confederate States of America; and in the lower right quarter, a portion of the union with three of the stars, three of the red stripes and two of the white stripes of the flag of the United States of America. At the top and center of the shield shall be a bust of a Shawnee Indian warrior. Below the shield shall be the motto "Fare Fac," and below that the date "1744." At the right of the shield shall be a decoration of a garland of the ivy vine, and at the left a laurel branch. This seal shall be so engraved as to produce the above- described design when it is impressed on paper. When the seal is reproduced in colors, the several quarterings, the Indian bust, the laurel and ivy shall be in their proper colors, and the lettering in the outer circle shall be in colonial blue upon a background of colonial buff. This seal shall be the authorized and official and corporate seal of the City and shall be accepted and used as such. (Code 1959, §1-8)
Randy Young, 10 February 1999
 
Thulsa Doom said:
wait wait... where on the Virginia State Seal is the confederate flag? Am i missing something here? I used to live in Virginia for years. Im pretty familiar with that seal.




which part? I have seen it more in the Southern part but it is damn near absent from what I have seen in the DC Area
 
Thulsa Doom said:
wait wait... where on the Virginia State Seal is the confederate flag? Am i missing something here? I used to live in Virginia for years. Im pretty familiar with that seal.


I relied solely on the article. It said state seal. I don't know what the VA state seal looks like. If it's a typo or mistake, blame tonguetied.

Gonz, you have every right to your opinions. I challenge you that they are misguided and misplaced, and can back that up. However, you as anyone alse have every right to hold the opinions you decide to hold. Nothing personal on my end to be sure. Just know that every story has two sides, and sometimes one gets stifled.
 
I thnk each story actually has 3 sides. Yours, mine and the truth which is somewhere between the 2 sides mentioned
 
Virginia State Seal:
seal_va.jpg

Winchester City Seal:
welcome.jpg


ok i see now. had no idea that winchester, a NORTHERN virginia city where i have friends and where ive visited many a farmers market, used tax payer money to print the defeated flag of the confederate south on all its official business stuff. Im all with the british guy on this. Im sickened my tax money went to funding that. i have no problem when private citizens use it but when they demand i pay for an emblem that promoted slavery which they are STILL hanging on to 150 years later? get a life.
 
But yet, you've no problem with the union jack being on it? What a hypocrite. The emblem didn't promote anything. It's a picture. People promoted slavery. Some still do. Try dealing with the problem, instead of symbols.
 
Mr Love - voicing the unsaid views of probably the majority of Brits said:
Love told the paper that he finds American culture “frustrating.” He complains that we have little international news in our media, saying Americans are “a bit insular”

Sadly... it is how America is seen...

I personally know that that isn't always the case... but...
 
Professur said:
But yet, you've no problem with the union jack being on it? What a hypocrite. The emblem didn't promote anything. It's a picture. People promoted slavery. Some still do. Try dealing with the problem, instead of symbols.

what does the union jack represent? youll need to educate me on its evils. and if you are saying i have no room to feel wronged for being forced to pay for a symbol that to certain groups in this society represents racism simply because its just "a picture" well how does that logic work exactly? would it be just as wrong for me to complain about it if they forced me to pay for a swastika as the state symbol? its not JUST about nazism after all...

Im aware that to many the confederate flag represents a kind of "southern pride" and thats fine. some of my closest drinking buddies who would have happily taken a bullet for me had the thing all over their trucks and what not. but to many many many more it also represents oppression and racism. and many people (not all. but many...) who fly that flag do so out of a sense of goading not simply out of a sense of some kind of pride. as a kind of state sanctioned jab at blacks. and generations of blacks still see it as the equivilant of a burning cross. of a warning that basically tells them "better watch yourself around here nigger". Thats simply the truth and a legitimate phenomenon. if the meaning behind the flag had shifted away from that message by now then no one would feel this way. but they do.

so sell it in the free market. absolutely. but to ask the descendents of the oppressed to embrace it as their civic symbol AND to pay for it? seems like a slap in the face now doesnt it? symbolism is powerful.
 
Thulsa Doom said:
what does the union jack represent? youll need to educate me on its evils.

Good Morning Kamarad Thulsa Doom. DFisherman (newbie) here.

The Union Jack is an amalgam of three other flags:

- The Cross of St-George (England), which is a red cross on a white background.
- The Cross of St-Andrew (Scotland), which is a white X-cross on a blue background.
- The Cross of St-Patrick (Ireland), which is a red X-cross on a white background.



Cheers,

- DFisherman
 
DFisherman said:
Good Morning Kamarad Thulsa Doom. DFisherman (newbie) here.

The Union Jack is an amalgam of three other flags:

- The Cross of St-George (England), which is a red cross on a white background.
- The Cross of St-Andrew (Scotland), which is a white X-cross on a blue background.
- The Cross of St-Patrick (Ireland), which is a red X-cross on a white background.



Cheers,

- DFisherman

Thanks Fish. Im learn-ed now. Although still confused about how this represents evil. But Ill take Proffs word for it I suppose. By the way, love the avatar.
 
TD:

The Confederate Battle Flag is the flag on the city seal, as well as the one in my avatar.

Slavery was not the issue in the War of Northern Aggression. Far from it.

The flag stood, and still stands, for opposition to oppressive government. Period.

No denying that some misguided fools have usurped the flag and used it for other despicable purposes. They are wrong.

If you are as intelligent and openminded as you seem to be, I will happily provide you links to the side of history you have thus far been denied. Then you should do as I have done...make your own decisions and draw your own conclusions. The version of American history you, I and 99% of everyone else has been taught is wrong, inaccurate, flawed, and misleading.

I will not ram anything down a person's throat in the name of making a point. If you want the information, let me know. If not, no ill will here.

I do this, make these posts, and offer the information not out of any selfish desire to start arguments or beat dead horses. I do it because I researched some things and was appalled at what I learned. I figure other people might be curious too. If not, all apologies and again no ill will. Your opinions are your own, as mine are my own. I'm just the type person that would rather form an opinion with ALL the facts in light.
 
Thulsa Doom said:
Thanks Fish. Im learn-ed now. Although still confused about how this represents evil. But Ill take Proffs word for it I suppose. By the way, love the avatar.

Thank you for the friendly welcome, Kamarad Thulsa Doom. Yes, I like the Reverend Jim picture also. It was either that or the Malcolm X with the M1 rifle ("By any means necessary"), but I'm keeping that one for special occasions.

Cheers,

- DFisherman
 
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