Minding more than one's own business

Gato_Solo said:
Not to disparage you, SnP, but there are three sides to every argument. Your side, their side, and the truth. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. ;)
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had to go with what I said? getting desparate when you agree with a liberal ;)
 
freako104 said:
had to go with what I said? getting desparate when you agree with a liberal ;)
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Nope. I've said that myself, many times. Just not here. And you spelled desperate wrong. :p Besides...we're dealing with the historical significance of the Confederate Battle flag...not a current-day event. ;)
 
By that logic no one can ever be right.
Or know the truth.
Yep a libby position if there ever was one.
 
Thulsa Doom said:
The problem is that even if the confederate flag has some well hidden noble story behind it, its still widely considered the very symbol of continued oppresion. It was flown by the south who opposed the abolition of slavery.
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Therein lies the problem. The war was not a war over slavery. It was a war over states' rights opposed to Federal government's rights. Plain and simple. Not only the practice of slavery was at question, but so were matters of taxation, representation, industrial distribution, the building of railroads, many many other issues. Our history books have focused in on one and only one issue of the war...so we believe that was the ONLY issue. It wasn't. As Lincoln himself said, and I quoted above, slavery was not his concern. He had no inclination, to use his own word, to free a single slave.

Slavery was still practiced in the North during these years as well. let us not overlook that fact. It's pretty important to understand that slavery was not a solely Southern phenomenon.

The area I am from, upper East Tennessee, was poor. Hell,still is. There were no slaves here; no one could afford them. Still, they fought for the Confederacy because they were tired of staying poor while the fatcat Northern industrialist refused to build factories here. See, there were no railroads here, so they couldn't ship their goods. In fact, the primary reason monshining became an attractive business was the fact that you can't get corn off a mountain in time to sell it profitably. But corn LIQUOR...now that's a different ball of wax. Point being, these people were citizens of America. They had a right to make a living, and they felt that right was being denied them by their government. So they wanted a new one. Tennessee was the last state to secede and the first to rejoin the Union. Tennessee wanted to remain Union loyal, and some areas did remain loyal. It was as borderline a state as there was. But in the end, they could not remain in a Union that was treating them the way they were being treated. Now if that's a sin, I think a lot of people are Hell bound right now today. Agree?

Again, slavery was not the only, or even main, issue in the secession. States rights were. These included the slave practice, yes. No argument from me there. To argue that is to deny history, and I will not do that to make a point on an internet message board. But it was only a small part of the overall reasoning. As noted previously, very few Southerners even owned slaves. It was a tiny part of their economic structure. Certainly not enough to go to war over. Plenty of Southeern farmers subsisted without slaves...far more than the number that used them. To think that was the only reason for the war is laughable at best, ludicrous at its face.

Some have questioned whether these states had this right in the Constitution when they seceded. Well, Lincoln thought they did. I firmly believe Abraham Lincoln was goaded into this war against his wishes...by Yankee industrialists. They needed the South's raw materials and patronage. With a Confederacy, their goods might have been taxed and their revenues lost. So let's make 'em come back! By force! Never mind that clause in the Constitution which states that the government cannot do that, just do it!

Bullshit.

OK, I'm done again. Gonna draw some more cool water...
 
Winky said:
By that logic no one can ever be right.
Or know the truth.
Yep a libby position if there ever was one.
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I didnt say they cant be right. the problem is how people are going to see the situation. and then they have their own perspective and story. the stories will collide. somewhere in the middle is what truly happened
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
Now...TD, you asked for more information on blacks in the Confederate army. I am most certainly pleased to present that.

Link to Texas 37th Cavalry's website

Link to The Patriotist site on blacl Confederate soldiers
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Oh I knew that there were blacks in the confederate army. Thats fairly common knowledge. There were, after all, slaves who were very close with their masters and were willing to take up arms to defend them. normal human psychology there. I was just astounded at your insistence that they were treated like brothers in arms and better by their southern brethren then by their northern brethren. Im of the opinion that they were largely treated like crap by both sides. But that at least if they fought on the side of the north that freedom would result. i seriously doubt, no matter how much they were promised, that southern blacks would have been freed for fighting with the confederates.
 
Then I shall keep digging to find the site I drew that from. It may take me awhile - as I said, many links were lost out of my stupidity when we upgraded. I won't forget it, though. I will find it again.
 
Ya know the only Black I've ever met in my entire life that wasn't hung up on HIS or HER own skin color, (granted I’ve known only a very few) come to think of it was a Guy from Nigeria.

He is a highly college educated professional making six figures a year living in the richest part of this town married to a rather hot blonde woman that is actually closely related by blood to Erwin Rommel lol
(yes her family disapproves)

I guess coming from a country that has a annual per capita income of $900.00 USD a year and has undergone years of civil strife would make anyone appreciate America. (regardless of skin color)

Guess this black racist thing is mostly isolated to "African-Americans"?
 
Winky said:
Guess this black racist thing is mostly isolated to "African-Americans"?
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Give the man a cookie. He actually figured it out! :faint:

Since the war between the states, there has been a feeling of hatred, guilt, and fear in both races in this country. Since most blacks born in the US from parents, descended from slaves, have "massa's" blood flowing in them...if we'd been acknowledged as the children of 'massa', how many of these problems would be non-existent?
 
Gato_Solo said:
Since most blacks born in the US from parents, descended from slaves, have "massa's" blood flowing in them...if we'd been acknowledged as the children of 'massa', how many of these problems would be non-existent?
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Now it's my turn. Got anything to support that statement?
 
You'll have to pardon my cynicism regarding matters some may consider "commonly accepted knowledge", given the contaxt of the thread and all...

So the black lineage in America is really that polluted, huh? Or maybe diluted is the word I want. Enough so as to say "most blacks in America" at least.

Interesting...need to ponder the ramifications of this and find its proper place in an overall policy-making scenario. Might have some far-reaching effects. Certain claims may have to be adjusted...who knows where it could all end...
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
You'll have to pardon my cynicism regarding matters some may consider "commonly accepted knowledge", given the contaxt of the thread and all...
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Cynicism is what keeps wise men from becoming fools. ;)

SnP said:
So the black lineage in America is really that polluted, huh? Or maybe diluted is the word I want. Enough so as to say "most blacks in America" at least.
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Diluted is the best word for it, and it's not 'most blacks in America', it's 'most blacks in America descended from American slaves'.

SnP said:
Interesting...need to ponder the ramifications of this and find its proper place in an overall policy-making scenario. Might have some far-reaching effects. Certain claims may have to be adjusted...who knows where it could all end...
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Doesn't matter. Money, land, inheritance mean nothing without the one thing that matters most...acknowledgement. We are family (not you and I in particular, but you get my drift), and would like to be treated like family. Besides...a lot of folks would scream 'reparations' if money was involved, so we don't want to open that can of worms to go fishing with...
 
Umm, dude? The reparations can has been open for years.

I propose that reparation also be made to the descendants of the victims of Sherman's self-indignant campaign of rape, slaughter of innocents, pillage, robbery, and desecration. But (surprise surprise) nobody wants to consider that. Guess those innocent children and women don't count either.

Maybe we're actually in the same boat...descendants of people nobody cares about. Translation: non-Yankee. Imagine that.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
Umm, dude? The reparations can has been open for years.
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It get's extremely heated in this forum... :lloyd:

SnP said:
I propose that reparation also be made to the descendants of the victims of Sherman's self-indignant campaign of rape, slaughter of innocents, pillage, robbery, and desecration. But (surprise surprise) nobody wants to consider that. Guess those innocent children and women don't count either.

Maybe we're actually in the same boat...descendants of people nobody cares about. Translation: non-Yankee. Imagine that.
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That's what happens when you decide to 'win at any cost'. Not saying it was right...in fact agreeing it was wrong, but, unless you're Japanese-American, and was in the WWII internment camps, you ain't gettin' nuthin.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
Maybe. We've certainly rebounded fairly well from Sherman's war crimes at least.
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well yeah. I mean look at all the red states. :D When did Alaska become the south anyway? Or should I ask when did the south become republican? Dont answer that. Its rhetorical.

SouthernN'Proud said:
So the black lineage in America is really that polluted, huh? Or maybe diluted is the word I want. Enough so as to say "most blacks in America" at least.
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well yeah but this has all been thought of years ago. thats why they came up with the "one drop" rule remember? but its a little silly to talk about this as if this is a strange phenomenon. race doesnt exist. we are all polluted by each other. we are all one long stream of humanity and of subtle DNA variations. never doubt this.
 
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