My opinion is rather unpopular around here ...

nalani

nalani

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if y'all heard this story or not, I don't recall seeing it in the RW .. but this kinda umm.. pisses me off. Mind you, most of you know I'm not America's biggest fan (that's not up for debate or argument so don't trip on me) .. but I take offense to his actions. I'm not against his view against the war .. no, he has a right to his opinion .. BUT:

1. If he was against the war, citing it is 'illegal', why wait until he is being deployed before saying anything? Hmmm.... coincidence?

2. If I'm not mistaken, the last time he took a shit before being sworn in as a member of the United States military was the last time his ass actually belonged to him. You don't join for college benefits, an extra paycheck or whatever reason you talked to the recruiter about. The bottom line is you are a soldier, period, and you do as your commander, even if it's President Bush, tells you to do. The benefits are just that benefits and not the purpose.

C. I'm offended on behalf of my father, uncles, grandfathers, etc, who served their country, like it or not, and got completely fucked for it (medical benefits taken away, retirement pay lessened, diseases, PTSD, etc) as well as the families - parents, spouses and children especially - who make just as many sacrifices when this jerk comes home (to Hawai'i, of course *sigh*) for the HOLIDAYS before his hearing. Umm.. last I looked, no one stationed in Iraq got to come home for the holidays ... and they didn't turn their back on the job they VOLUNTARILY signed up for. Grrrr...


ok .. umm.. I'm done venting :D
 
Sounds like someone's scared to live up to his obligations. Being a soldier is all well and good when no real soldiering needs done, eh?
It's disgusting.
 
You are correct nalani, he made a commitment to the Army and at the last minite he tried to back out...

What needs to happen is he needs to pay back all what he recieved from the government then serve his time behind bars...
 
I'm SO with ya! Not a single person I know that deployed wanted to leave and face war, but it is a commitment! It's like me wanting the joy and love of having a child, and then saying to heck with the midnight feedings!
 
Add a nother to your camp, nalani. He said "I solemely swear..." & should fulfill his oath.

Probably another looking for the benefits & not the obligation.
 
thanks y'all .. I just really needed to vent that. Half the people I talk to about it side with him, the other half agree with me and the other side (yes, I've spoken to 1.5 people LOL) have no opinion at all. It's hard because while a lot of people around here are hating on President Bush (me included), that's just not the point here .. He *joined*.. they didn't come get him, the dude *joined* the service. *That's* the point, whether or not he or anyone else agrees with President Bush .. at least, that's how I see it ... and to be honest, a lot of the people I speak with about this that side with him have no military background or experience.

I don't know, maybe I just take it too personally since my father joined the Marines when he turned 18 and didn't retire until 1980 - 30 years of service to his country. When shit was going down in Vietnam, he didn't say 'hey - that's not our business' and protest .. when he was sent to Korea he didn't say 'hold on, my wife is going to give birth to our 4th child' ... when he was sent back to Korea, the only time he asked to come home was when my sister died - at that was all of 4 days. He suffered his entire life with PTSD, depression, cluster headaches, *strange* illnesses and still managed to be a great husband and father. He has albums full of certificates and a wall full of plaques and if her were still alive and you asked him if he'd change anything, he'd probably say no. Committment meant something to him - whether it was to his country, his family or to the dude down the street. They just don't build 'em like him anymore.
 
Committment meant something to him - whether it was to his country, his family or to the dude down the street. They just don't build 'em like him anymore.
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That's a diehard fact, for many of his generation, and to me it's clear
to see the - de-evolution of values in latter generations in the %age.
I'm tellin' ya PC is destroying good values more everyday. :(
 
catocom said:
That's a diehard fact, for many of his generation, and to me it's clear
to see the - de-evolution of values in latter generations in the %age.
I'm tellin' ya PC is destroying good values more everyday. :(
Click to expand...

Yep, there's no real punishment, failure isn't really failure, stupidity isn't really stupidity...
 
Looks like just another whiner who decided they didn't want to do the job they signed up for...
 
Gato_Solo said:
Looks like just another whiner who decided they didn't want to do the job they signed up for...
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But, but ... he didn't sign up for a war. It was jsut supposed to be some marching, firing off a gun at targets, and getting yelled at. Then they were supposed to pay for him to get a degree he's not qualified for. Noone said anything about a war!!!



Fucking twat. Someone tie him to the front of a tank already.
 
Professur said:
But, but ... he didn't sign up for a war. It was jsut supposed to be some marching, firing off a gun at targets, and getting yelled at. Then they were supposed to pay for him to get a degree he's not qualified for. Noone said anything about a war!!!



Fucking twat. Someone tie him to the front of a tank already.
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I would be honored to supply the rope.
 
Prosecutors said Watada stated at a news conference in June that "The wholesale slaughter and mistreatment of Iraqis is not only a terrible and moral injustice, but is a contradiction to the Army's own law of land warfare. My participation would make me party to war crimes."
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Well, he's got a point there.

It doesn't say how old he was when he joined but my opinion is that 18yr olds make a lot of mistakes that they regret later. They're confronted with college and how to pay for it and what to major in. They choose majors at random that they don't use, or change, or get stuck in careers they hate. They might even join the military just to make ends meet and getting sent to a farce in Iraq where they could die.

A lot of times 18yr olds just aren't prepared to make these kind of life altering (or threatening) decisions. It might be a good idea to raise the age you can join the military to 21 with the drinking age and restructure the higher education system.

Also there should be more accountability for recruiters who play up the benefits while downplaying the possibility of going into combat and some requirement to provide the different points of view on the current world events that these kids may be putting their life on the line for.
 
Looks like the tar and feather brigade are out in force.


Quote:
nalani:
Committment meant something to him - whether it was to his country, his family or to the dude down the street. They just don't build 'em like him anymore.

Catocom:
That's a diehard fact, for many of his generation, and to me it's clear
to see the - de-evolution of values in latter generations in the %age.
I'm tellin' ya PC is destroying good values more everyday.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with both these, but disagree with one part of Nal's statement. (ok, sod it ...95% then ... ;) )

They Do still build them like that, and we should all fuckin remember that.

But you are right - nowhere near as many, and Cat and Chcr between them nails the why, for me.

Chcr:
Yep, there's no real punishment, failure isn't really failure, stupidity isn't really stupidity...
Click to expand...

aye.
 
BB said:
Looks like the tar and feather brigade are out in force.




I agree 100% with both these, but disagree with one part of Nal's statement. (ok, sod it ...95% then ... ;) )

They Do still build them like that, and we should all fuckin remember that.
.
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In case you missed it, I was talking about my father. Forgive me if I don't think or "fuckin remember" as you put it, that ANYONE is like him. Do I think everyone else is a loser? Nope - which was evident by many of my comments in previous posts. I was speaking on a personal level, as was stated but apparently ignored. But I will, regardless of what anyone "fuckin" says, always hold my father on a pedalstool. Period.

The point of the thread was not to 'fuckin' bash on anyone who isn't my father or on me, for that matter, for actually looking up to my father. Sorry that was lost on you.
 
spike said:
Well, he's got a point there.

It doesn't say how old he was when he joined but my opinion is that 18yr olds make a lot of mistakes that they regret later. They're confronted with college and how to pay for it and what to major in. They choose majors at random that they don't use, or change, or get stuck in careers they hate. They might even join the military just to make ends meet and getting sent to a farce in Iraq where they could die.

A lot of times 18yr olds just aren't prepared to make these kind of life altering (or threatening) decisions. It might be a good idea to raise the age you can join the military to 21 with the drinking age and restructure the higher education system.

Also there should be more accountability for recruiters who play up the benefits while downplaying the possibility of going into combat and some requirement to provide the different points of view on the current world events that these kids may be putting their life on the line for.
Click to expand...

*shakes head* don't care. It doesn't matter if he has a valid point or not - like I said, it's not his stance that pissing me off it's the fact that he waited until he was being DEPLOYED to say anything about it. Do I personally agree with the war? Nope. Do I want our troops back home? As soon as it's humanly possible. None of that has any bearing on the *actual* points ... go back and read the very first post, I'm not going to say it all again.
 
nalani said:
*shakes head* don't care. It doesn't matter if he has a valid point or not - like I said, it's not his stance that pissing me off it's the fact that he waited until he was being DEPLOYED to say anything about it. Do I personally agree with the war? Nope. Do I want our troops back home? As soon as it's humanly possible. None of that has any bearing on the *actual* points ... go back and read the very first post, I'm not going to say it all again.
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Exactly.
We were gearing up for a war in the middle East when I was in the Navy...I knew it was coming and I knew that I really didn't want to be part of it and sent away from my family...so I finished my obligation and parted company with the military.
Now maybe this guy didn't have the luxury of seperating before the war started but he sure knew it was coming (or had already started) when he joined.
The military is there to fight. If you aren't prepared to obey the order to deploy in a war then you have no business joining the military :shrug:
 
nalani said:
In case you missed it, I was talking about my father. Forgive me if I don't think or "fuckin remember" as you put it, that ANYONE is like him. Do I think everyone else is a loser? Nope - which was evident by many of my comments in previous posts. I was speaking on a personal level, as was stated but apparently ignored. But I will, regardless of what anyone "fuckin" says, always hold my father on a pedalstool. Period.

The point of the thread was not to 'fuckin' bash on anyone who isn't my father or on me, for that matter, for actually looking up to my father. Sorry that was lost on you.
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Wasn't lost on me at all. I fear you missed my point, if anything. :shrug:

There are BRITISH and American soldiers who did honour their commitments and are out there right now, whether they agreed with the politicans that sent them or not.

Some of whom are now dead.

My own father fought in world war 2 and all my Great Uncles (on my mums side) died or were badly maimed in the trenches of World war 1.

But that does not take anything away to the current generation that HAVE honoured their commitments.
Or those that have died or will die doing so.

Nor did the commitment of the first world war generation take anything away from the second world war generation.

tar one man if you will - but my point is this - do not forget those that ARE out there - and do not tar a whole generation with the same brush.


My point was, they don't make so many it seems, as Cat and Chcr pointed out - but that we should not (fuckin) forget those that do fight or serve - whatever the view on the war or the politics of it.

respecting your father is fine and understandable - and i have said nothing to the contrary - nor would I.

but bashing a whole generation of service men and women who are dying daily because of one man who objected -

well, tell that to the mum's of British and American fatalities.

tell them they don't make them like they did no more.
 
nalani said:
*shakes head* don't care. It doesn't matter if he has a valid point or not - like I said, it's not his stance that pissing me off it's the fact that he waited until he was being DEPLOYED to say anything about it. Do I personally agree with the war? Nope. Do I want our troops back home? As soon as it's humanly possible. None of that has any bearing on the *actual* points ... go back and read the very first post, I'm not going to say it all again.
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Nalani, your points are valid. I was saying that I believe 18yr olds often aren't prepared for these kind of decisions in the first place and maybe won't think it through until they're being deployed.

Then again I don't know that he didn't say anything about it before being deployed. Maybe that's just when it got publicity.

Regardless, I'm not disagreeing with you, just suggesting some ways to avoid these situations.
 
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