Nader joins the chase..

You know, I didn't like Reagan or Clinton, both Bush's have horrified me (for differnent reasons), but Nader would be the biggest disaster the country has ever faced. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
 
Exactly what's wrong with Nader? And be specific. Do you know anything about his platform? Have you been to his campaign website? It's located at http://www.votenader.org. I think he'd be a terrific President. A problem I see with his campaign is that it doesn't have a message board where people can discuss issues and the campaign like the one Kucinich has. The problem with the word "liberal" is that it was basically forced onto people by Kennedy. I think overtime after hearing replays of Kennedy's speech people got tired of it and that "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". That's why Kerry might not win the election. Americans, in general, think of themselves first and if they care other people.
 
He has absolutely no chance to win,so by him running and splitting the non-Bush vote ,its a boost for Bush.Think about the last election for a minute ,if Nader hadn't run and some of those that voted for him instead voted for Gore . :swing:
 
I don't see it that way.
I'm still thinking of voting for Bush again, but I'm really
undecided right now.
If I don't vote Bush, I'll probably vote Nader.
In any event I can't see ever voting for Kerry.
So I perceive it to be about evenly pulled votes.
If nader doesn't win, and he probably won't, the vote
could be pulled from either side the most. :confused:

P.S. Even if Nader doesn't win, and I voted for him,
I don't look at it like throwing my vote away.
I vote my conscience, and at least I do vote.
IMO people that do not vote (because they just don't)
have no right to complain about the gov. period. :eek6:
(and I like to complain about the gov. in general.) :D
 
PowerballWinner said:
Exactly what's wrong with Nader? And be specific. Do you know anything about his platform? Have you been to his campaign website? It's located at http://www.votenader.org. I think he'd be a terrific President. A problem I see with his campaign is that it doesn't have a message board where people can discuss issues and the campaign like the one Kucinich has. The problem with the word "liberal" is that it was basically forced onto people by Kennedy. I think overtime after hearing replays of Kennedy's speech people got tired of it and that "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". That's why Kerry might not win the election. Americans, in general, think of themselves first and if they care other people.
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GOVERNMENT TESTS PROVE THE CORVAIR DOES NOT
HAVE A HANDLING OR STABILITY PROBLEM
By Bob Helt
Nader's Charges
In his 1965 book, Unsafe at any Speed, and several preliminary articles in the national magazine, The Nation, Ralph Nader charged that the 1960-63 Corvairs had a defective rear suspension that made them prone to roll-over and dangerous to drive. He claimed that they were prone to roll-over and loss of control. Although his facts were meager, his charges were hard-hitting and were picked up by all news covering organizations. Although only the first chapter of his book was devoted to the Corvair, that is the thing most remembered about his book, and most associated with Nader. As a result of his charges and subsequent U.S. Senate hearings there was a growing national concern about automobile safety, with the Corvair the center of attention.

Thorough Testing
Due to Nader’s wild charges about the Corvair and the national concerns for automobile safety, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was authorized to run a series of comparative tests during the Spring and Summer of 1971 to demonstrate the handling of the 1963 Corvair against four contemporary competitive automobiles. Involved in the tests were The Ford Falcon, Plymouth Valiant, Volkswagen Beetle, Renault Dauphine, the 1963 Corvair, and a 1967 Corvair for reference.
The test program was quite comprehensive and detailed. It was divided into four parts:
a comprehensive search and review of all related General Motors/Chevrolet internal letters, memos, tests, reports, etc. regarding the Corvair’s handling
a similar search and review of all related public technical literature
a review of all national accident data compiled by insurance companies and traffic authorities for the six cars selected for these tests
a series of actual driving and handling tests designed to evaluate the handling and stability under extreme maneuvering conditions; and to push the test vehicles to their limits

The Corvair Is Exonerated
At the conclusion of these tests, the NHTSA released its 134 page report. It exonerated the Corvair from Nader’s charges, and said things such as: "The 1960-63 Corvair compares favorably with contemporary vehicles used in the tests," and, "The handling and stability performance of the 1960-63 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover, and it is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles both foreign and domestic." The complete report, PB 211-015, can be obtained from the National Technical Information Service (NTIS)*.

An Independent Panel Agrees
Because the NHTSA wanted to be as sure as possible of their approach, tests and conclusions, they then contracted with a three man advisory panel of independent professional engineers to review the scope and competency of the NHTSA tests. This review panel then issued their own 24 page report (PB 211-014, also available from the NTIS*).
In their report, the Panel drew even stronger conclusions in support of the Corvair than the NHTSA. They said, "It is the opinion of the panel that the Corvair quantitatively meets or exceeds the standards set by contemporary cars in stability tests, cornering tests, and rollover tests," and, "for this reason the panel concluded that the 1960-63 Corvair does not have a safety defect, and is not more unstable or more likely to roll over than contemporary cars."

Nader is Proven Wrong
Wow, go back and read that again. No safety or handling defects in the Corvair! But does anybody know this? The news media all but ignored these conclusions. They apparently thought that Nader’s charges were of greater news value than the fact that his charges were all proven wrong. Even today, of those who know of Nader’s charges against the Corvair, few if any know that his charges were false and were proven wrong. No, the fact that the Corvair was exonerated of all of Nader’s charges was hardly publicized. It received little or no attention from the media.
It is ironic that these false charges concerning the Corvair’s handling and stability are all anyone remembers, and are the only story ever told in the Press, even though they have been fully refuted by actual tests. Nader, of course, built his career on these false charges.
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Note that the testing that Mr. Nader cites in the book was all carried out at the Ford Proving Grounds in Yucca, AZ by Ford employees (Need I remind you that the Corvair was made by General Motors?). Now, I never really cared that much about the Corvair one way or the other, but a pattern of lies and deceit? That bugs me. Especially as he tries to pass himself off as an alternative candidate (alternative to what?). He's a liar and he wants you to be hysterically, fanatically loyal to his beliefs. Unmitigated disaster if he were somehow able to get elected.
 
Last election you saw a bunch of Hollywood types pushing for Nader,I haven't seen one so far this election.I've heard its because of the very reason I posted above ,people felt it was such a close election lastime that Nader was to blame for Bush getting in.Thats not an opinion its whats been flogged in the media/internet/etc...
 
Assuming exit polls in Florida were an accurate representation of those that voted, Gore would have won Florida and that's assuming that Nader's votes (had he not been in the race and the people voted for Gore instead of him) were actually counted for Gore. Actually Nader could win this time. Let's review some facts shall we:

*In 2000, Nader had hardly any media coverage.
*In 2000, he didn't have much funding.
*After the 2000 election, he was painted as someone who broke the ice. Many people who never heard of him, after hearing about him, wished they had voted for him.
*In 2000, he had what was reported to me the largest rallies of any Presidential candidate. So it's possible that they could become bigger in 2004 since Kerry is so much like Bush given how he voted for the PATRIOT Act and the Iraq War.
*In 2000, he ran as a Green, this time he's running as an independent. Most people haven't registered with any party - so they'll likely vote Nader.
*In 2004, I think Nader is using the same http://www.voteNader.org website he used last time. So people who voted for him previously and want to vote for him again can easily check back to that same old website (just modified differently).
*In 2004, he's got the endorsement of the Reform Party and I think maybe the Natural Law Party and maybe the Green Party will endorse him - to gain the endorsement of three political parties is quite an achievement. *In 2004, he's qualified for Federal Matching Funds.
 
If you believe that someone that got 2,882,955 votes( 2.74% of the total votes )is got a snowballs chance then all the power to you ,but it ain't gonna happen.I know popular vote can't be used as a deciding factor ,but its kinda obvious. :lloyd:
 
In 2000, Nader had hardly any media coverage.
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Thats just plain incorrect,everytime you turned on the TV some actor was touting the Nader alternative,I'm Canadian and saw more than enough of him.
 
His platform was different than it is now. Last time his platform advocated signing the mine ban treaty and abolition of the death penalty. This time it doesn't mention either of them and I think there are other differences.
 
Nader plays like he's Perot!

A vote for ol Ralphie is a vote for
our beloved President George W. Bush
You go Nader!!!


"Ralph Nader announced he's running for president after a new poll found he'd get .5% of the vote. Nader's slogan: 'Eat my dust Kucinich.'"
Craig Kilborn

"A big weekend for the candidates. President Bush highlighted his foreign policy, and then John Kerry emphasized his war record, and then Ralph Nader bragged about an article he wrote on toasters that explode."
Craig Kilborn
 
Re: Nader plays like he's Perot!

I seem to remember another third-party candidate, 12 years ago, costing the incumbent president his job and electing the Democrat challenger. Does the name Ross Perot ring a bell? Funny how Democrats bemoan Nader "costing Gore the election" but had no problem with it when the third-party candidate got their golden boy, Clinton, into office.
 
Re: Nader plays like he's Perot!

Inkara1 said:
I seem to remember another third-party candidate, 12 years ago, costing the incumbent president his job and electing the Democrat challenger. Does the name Ross Perot ring a bell? Funny how Democrats bemoan Nader "costing Gore the election" but had no problem with it when the third-party candidate got their golden boy, Clinton, into office.
Click to expand...
:D

Why is it, do you think, that it never occurs to these self-important jackanapes in power that this is simply evidence that we as an electorate do not want the people they continue to run?
 
Re: Nader plays like he's Perot!

Hmm.

Can't vote for Bush, because his domestic policy sucks ass.

Can't vote Libertarian, because their foreign policy stance sucks ass.

Can't vote Kerry, because I have to look at myself in the mirror when this is over.

Nader might not be a bad choice. :D
 
Ya know, the more I think about this, the more I like it.

I get to not reward Bush directly for the overall poor job he's doing while hurting Kerry (a win for Kerry would be a 4 year disaster for the US, IMO). I don't have to vote for the Libertarian candidate, whose Iraq policy is out of line with my opinions. And God knows, this yahoo ain't gonna win.

Go, Nader.
 
A vote for Nader is a vote for GWB

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