Need a chemist...

HeXp£Øi±

HeXp£Øi±

Well-Known Member
Alright i know atleast a few of you have med or chemistry backgrounds.

Can anyone tell me what the difference would be between naturally occuring ephedra and ephedrine hydrochloride?
 
The natural stuff is pretty much a small quantity natural alkaloid byproduct contained within a great deal of plants .. ma huang, kola nut... pretty much the same way that marginal amounts of natural caffeine are found within all kinds of plants. Properly cultivated and concentrated only with technique, natural ephedra can be raised to the level of some of that stuff that you used to be able to buy over the counter ... but the process is expensive. The hydrochloride varaint is a lab frankenstien... and cheap. The Frankenstein stuff is regulated by the feds like any other chemical. The natural stuff skirts the laws because they are sold as health aids with no promises. Its darn near the same thing in the end... but the hydrochloride stuff can be in some seriously unholy dosage levels.
 
Or you could just get pseudoephedrine HCL and crack it...but I'm not gonna tell you how to do that ;-)

...anyway, Ma Huang products contain about 8% or so ephedrine by dry weight...

this stuff's no good for you...shine it on....

MADrin
 
Got me a bit confused Unc. You say in the end they are (or can be) about the same but go on to say that the hcl has (high?) dosage levels. Do you mean to say that 60mg of natural ephedra is not necessarily the equivalent potency of 60mg ephedrine hci?
 
Actually the ephedrine is better(more easily abused) atleast straight, than the pseudoephedrine (not sure why). Anyway, i realize how this must look however i'm not interested in cooking anything. :D Closer to testifying than anything else.
 
I've never seen a natural source ephedra that would get above roughly 12 mg in a dose (ie pill, spoonfull.. bla bla). The chemisty wet dream stuff can be made into 100mg doses. Mg for mg, the effects are the same... you just never see the natural stuff being remotely that concentrated.
 
<confused nicholas cage voice>woah woah woah, you mean to say this stuff gets you high?</nick cage> :lol:
 
Exactly... I could just as easily claim that I have a diet drink with 100mg of natural ephedra if I just make it in powder form and put 15 scoops to a serving.
 
Good luck selling that product. Nastiest shit i have ever tasted in my entire life. How do i know? We used to down those pills(mini thins, primatine) like candy when i was in high school. One rule, do not throw them up. If you started vomiting the taste was so bad you wouldn't be able to stop.

On another note, i expect most of this stuff will be taken off the market within the next couple of years. At high doses(300-1000mg+) this stuff is like speed. It's addictive and it kills. Amazing it's taken them this long. A highly abusable drug and the governments decision to add guaifenesin to all ephedra drugs does little to discourage even chemists since guaifenesin has almost no side affects.
 
Also MAD...you know i wouldn't actually need you to give me the info should i want to cook something(or break it down). I mean, c'mon, that's so 1990. Remember the good ol days when the FBI would actually show up on your doorstep if you were caught downloading the anarchist cookbook? That happened to a friend of mine in 92'. But we all know those days are long gone. Now you can find any information that one would need for any purpose and download it with little concern. With the exception perhaps of nuclear detonators. They can't even keep track of counterfeiters any more.
 
LOL Hex...well, let me just say this...I've seen some of the "recipes" for cracking Pseudoephedrine HCL into...well...ephedrine...and then into any number of amine analogs...

and I can tell you this.....I wouldn't follow 'em. Any number of things can and do go wrong when people get a "little" knowledge. A little knowledge is dangerous...or so they say..

anyway, I sure wouldn't expect YOU to be cooking anything like that up...

...and I'm not so sure I'd download the Anarchist Cookbook these days either :p

MADrin
 
Well...there are those hasty small minded people who build bombs or take that first hit without triple checking sources...my point is that the info is there along with the probable majority of mis-info...if you have a little intellect though it can be deciphered easily. This is also not limited to simple drugs and homemade bombs. It's really quite amazing what we can find these days.
 
Oh yes....information abounds...

too much? Maybe, but I wouldn't personally argue that.

Good METH is a result of good MATH, when you come right down to it. In that respect even the worst recipe could be "fixed" and/or deciphered...

...one thing I find funny is the extent to which the recipe for ammonium tri-iodide is still all over the place.

sheesh, I remember making a slightly more complex variant of this 25 years ago for shits and giggles (fly mines), but I never ever thought it'd be common knowledge....

MADrin
 
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