NIMBY

Those in need of sheparding have always had one (the gov't). Those who can take care of themselves do and did. Take gov't out of the equation & those in need of a shepard stand, or fall, on their own.

I'd rather die with my boots on.
 
Professur said:
Big old glass tanks filled with acid, lead, and zinc. Batteries. If the oil industry hadn't put their muscle into it, battery development would have advanced rapidly, and we'd all be driving electric cars today.

BTW, back then, you know what the oil industry was doing? Making heating oil. Oil to burn for steam. If they lost any or the automotive industry today, do you think the heating oil industry would be enough to support them?
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You know, when I started at Cornell, the engineering department had an electric car prototype. It would run with a big block Corvette to about 100 mph, had a range of 150 to 200 miles and would recharge from 80% drained in less than 6 hours. It disappeared between my freshman and sophomore years. I have never seen anything in the electric car biz that came close to it since. Do you wonder what happened to it? I don't. :shrug:
 
Gonz said:
As for Microsoft...I've said for years that the 90s stock market run-up wasn't Bubbas, it was Bills. Could MS be better? Of course. However, it is sufficient & easy enough to allow 99% of the dumbasses to operate a PC without hurting themselves.

BTW, I also preferred Beta over VHS.
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Thank you for making my point. What would make M$ better? competition. If they had any real competition, they wouldn't get away with putting out a product with thousands of known bugs, would they?

Well, if the auto industry was pushed into making an alternative, the oil industry couldn't get away with just toeing the line either. A little gov't shove now could easily make a bigger difference than massive legislation later.

Or would you rather wait until there's no oil left, and then have the "alternative" thrown together at the last minute, at 100 times the cost of starting today?
 
Gonz said:
Those in need of sheparding have always had one (the gov't). Those who can take care of themselves do and did. Take gov't out of the equation & those in need of a shepard stand, or fall, on their own.

I'd rather die with my boots on.
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Then go get your boots, and stand over there. I'll be right with you. Then we can get on with something called progress.
 
LONDON (Reuters) - Gasoline rode high at over $100 a barrel on Thursday as the United States scrambled to replace fuel supplies lost when Hurricane Katrina slammed into Gulf of Mexico rigs and refiners.

President George W Bush told Americans he expected close ally Saudi Arabia to do "everything it can" to provide the United States with more oil and said there would be zero tolerance of price gouging at the gasoline pump.

But Europe was unnerved by how ill-prepared the world's biggest economy was for Hurricane Katrina's rampage.

The U.S. holds plenty of crude in its strategic stockpile and has offered to loan some of it to refiners, but the gesture does nothing to address an immediate shortage of gasoline. European operators dashed to charter ships to the U.S. coast.

White House economic adviser Ben Bernanke predicted gasoline prices would go higher then drop when supplies are restored.

"Hurricane Katrina has been an eye opener, highlighting the inadequacy of the global refining system," said Merrill Lynch.

The European Commission said it wanted to revive a plan to coordinate EU oil stocks. In Germany, election challenger Angela Merkel said she could envisage tapping German oil reserves, but her comments were smartly rebuffed by the government.

France announced it would give financial aid to millions of families to help them cope with sky-high oil prices, and promised to boost renewable energy.

"We have entered the post-oil era," Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin told a news conference.

The European Central Bank raised its inflation forecasts for this year and next, noting soaring oil prices were pushing up the cost of goods and services. The ECB raised its projection for the crude price by $12 to $62.8 a barrel in 2006.

U.S. crude was up six cents at $69 a barrel by 1644 GMT, below the record $70.85 hit on Tuesday. London Brent crude was up 28 cents at $67.30 a barrel.

Gasoline futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) continued their relentless rise to a high of $2.465 a gallon then eased to $2.355, up 9.97 cents on the day.

European gasoline barges hit a record $855 a ton, and U.S. heating oil touched a record $2.15 a gallon.

"We really need to see signs of slowing demand from China, India and the United States before prices can come off appreciably," analysts at Refco said.

But with more hurricanes in prospect risks to U.S. supply remained. "This hurricane season has been unusually active and the peak is just now approaching in early September."

GASOLINE

The U.S. oil industry remained shaken after Hurricane Katrina, with most offshore production from the Gulf of Mexico down, about 10 percent of U.S. refining capacity paralyzed, and pipelines struggling to restart. At least 20 rigs or platforms were adrift, listing, sunk or missing.

The U.S. Department of Energy said some of the eight refineries shut by Katrina could take months to restart, with reports that floodwaters swamped at least three in Louisiana.

European operators have booked 20 gasoline cargoes to the United States since Monday to take advantage of red hot U.S. gasoline prices, brokers said on Thursday.

"Crazy gas (gasoline) prices are certainly reflecting a perception of tighter supply in that product," said Bob Frye, a trader at Access Futures and Options Trading.

"As soon as we start hearing about isolated pockets where gas is unavailable, the emotional response is likely to drive things higher."

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Wednesday it would ease environmental standards of gasoline and diesel nationwide for two weeks to avert a fuel crunch.

The Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) holds more than 700 million barrels of crude in salt caverns in Louisiana and Texas. It loaned 5.4 million barrels of oil to refiners last year to stabilize supplies after the weaker Hurricane Ivan.

Further potential supply disruption could come from Nigeria, where the main workers' union threatened a strike, saying proposed fuel price hikes by the government of the world's eighth-biggest crude exporter were unacceptable.
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source
 
But also note, all the extra refineries that you want to build are useless .... without crude running into them.
 
Professur said:
Well, if the auto industry was pushed into making an alternative, the oil industry couldn't get away with just toeing the line either. A little gov't shove now could easily make a bigger difference than massive legislation later.
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The only incentive for gov't is taxation. They already make a bundle off of the auto industry & it's subsequent industries. Why should they go out of their way to create new & unknown energy sources that may not be taxed (or taxable)?

We the people...I am the gov't & I say less is better. Always.
 
Professur said:
But also note, all the extra refineries that you want to build are useless .... without crude running into them.
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There is plenty of crude & even more if the enviro-whackos got out of our way & allowed drilling off California, Florida, back in Texas & Oklahoma & throughout Alaksa.

There is no oil shortage, Today. Yesterday. Nor Tomorrow.
 
We the people are now running things in NO, and the elected gov't is pulling out and running scared. Yup, great idea. that'll work.


Drill anywhere and everywhere? Another great idea. Then we can have a deer shortage. Seal shortage. Fish shortage. Everything except an oil shortage. Brilliant. I wonder why noone except those who'd profit from it is fighting that battle.
 
The big bad Alaskan pipeline that would kill off all critters, great & small, has instead created a boon.

You're buying into the enviro-terrorist PC lies.
 
Gonz said:
Without oil, we'd be living in caves.
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which is exactly where we will be if we dont get our heads out of our collective asses and develop a better energy source. burning oil and gas is very inefficient, damaging to the enviroment, is non-renewable and will run out. doesnt matter if it runs out next week or in the next century, it will run out.
 
Gonz said:
The big bad Alaskan pipeline that would kill off all critters, great & small, has instead created a boon.

You're buying into the enviro-terrorist PC lies.
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I'm not buying anyone's line, Gonz. I know the history. Oil has never done any good, anywhere. Good Lord, man. Don't you recognise that an oil based world is only one step past steam? Is that really as far as you're willing to see?
 
Gimme nuclear power. Clean, efficient, abundant, renewable. Oh wait, that is also steam.

Our future is run by necessity (the mother of all inventions). Until we need, we'll not get. There are already alternatives. Not a one is cheaper, cleaner nor less demanding than oil. Find some. Make 'em work. Make 'em efficient. Make 'em cheap. Make 'em abundant. Then lets talk.

Battery power? We need electricity to recahrge the batteries. Oil or coal or radiation makes the power companies. Only nuclear is clean & everbody is scared to death of rumors.
 
Gonz said:
Battery power? We need electricity to recahrge the batteries. Oil or coal or radiation makes the power companies. Only nuclear is clean & everbody is scared to death of rumors.
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Clearly you've never heard of thermoelectric and hydroelectric stations.
 
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