NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

MrBishop

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY Thu May 11, 7:21 AM ET
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans - most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

"It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.

For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made - across town or across the country - to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others.

The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said. The program is aimed at identifying and tracking suspected terrorists, they said.

The sources would talk only under a guarantee of anonymity because the NSA program is secret.

Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, nominated Monday by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic call-tracking program. Hayden declined to comment about the program.

The NSA's domestic program, as described by sources, is far more expansive than what the White House has acknowledged. Last year, Bush said he had authorized the NSA to eavesdrop - without warrants - on international calls and international e-mails of people suspected of having links to terrorists when one party to the communication is in the USA. Warrants have also not been used in the NSA's efforts to create a national call database.

In defending the previously disclosed program, Bush insisted that the NSA was focused exclusively on international calls. "In other words," Bush explained, "one end of the communication must be outside the United States."

As a result, domestic call records - those of calls that originate and terminate within U.S. borders - were believed to be private.

Sources, however, say that is not the case. With access to records of billions of domestic calls, the NSA has gained a secret window into the communications habits of millions of Americans. Customers' names, street addresses and other personal information are not being handed over as part of NSA's domestic program, the sources said. But the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information.
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Source and more

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Stockpiling massive databases looking for patterns is a seemingly reasonable use of domestic spying. Its when they start making shit up to pin mocked up charges on someone that I have a problem.
 
It's the term "Suspected of" that gets me...especially combined with 'without warrant'

They don't have to prove to anyone, even themselves, that person-X has any links to terrorism.
 
I'm amazed that anyone's suprised at this at all. Hell, what do you think cell phone bills are based on? In the UK, local phone calls are billed just like long distance. Who's gonna pay a bill that says "You made 24 local calls" and doesn't detail the numbers?
 
MrBishop said:
It's the term "Suspected of" that gets me...especially combined with 'without warrant'

They don't have to prove to anyone, even themselves, that person-X has any links to terrorism.
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A looooooong time ago, I watched a CBC documentary. While I don't recall precisely the means and whatnot, it showed the technology CSIS uses to computerly screen random calls. When it hears a word or phrase on a list (god knows what words are on that list), then you get flagged. And then it won't be screening you so randomly anymore.

This is how they know to get the warrants to full out blatantly listen.

Now...I watched this several years ago...like...at least 8. Imagine what kinda technology there is now.
 
Professur said:
I'm amazed that anyone's suprised at this at all. Hell, what do you think cell phone bills are based on? In the UK, local phone calls are billed just like long distance. Who's gonna pay a bill that says "You made 24 local calls" and doesn't detail the numbers?
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Nothing new or unusual at all. Fuck 'em and feed 'em beans is my attitude.
 
This don't surprise me and I don't care what phone records they collect about me, I make very few phone calls...
 
In reality, I find it disturbing that our government collects any information on me. Not surprising, just disturbing. (Some of ya'll thought catching Tim McVeigh in 24 hours was a lucky break)

What I find disheartening is the insipid manner in which our Congress members spew forth drivel about this being un-American & not one has mentioned stopping it. That, and the fact that it's nothing more than one more attempt to bash Bush. This whole program was signed into law by the previous President (once again chcr) & nobody pissed their pants in a mad scramble to meet all the Dan Rather clones. hmmmm

"This is another example of the Bush Administration misleading the American people," said a spokeswoman for the Democratic National Committee, Stacie Paxton
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Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts called the program "abusive" and said "Today's shocking disclosures make it more important than ever for the Republican Congress to end its complicity in the White House cover up of its massive domestic surveillance program. When three major telephone companies are supplying the administration with records of all Americans regardless of any hint of wrongdoing, Congress can't look the other way."
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Rep. Harold Ford Jr., a Democrat of Tennessee, went on Fox News Channel to call the news "disturbing."
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Senator Clinton pronounced herself "deeply disturbed."
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It was President Clinton who signed into law the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994, after it was passed in both the House and Senate by a voice vote.
The law that President Clinton signed into law and that was approved by voice votes in 1994 by a Democrat-majority House and a Democrat-majority Senate not only made clear the phone companies' "duty" to cooperate, it authorized $500 million in taxpayer funds to reimburse the phone companies for equipment "enabling the government, pursuant to a court order or other lawful authorization, to access call-identifying information that is reasonably available to the carrier."
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NY Sun
 
In reality, I find it disturbing that our government collects any information on me. Not surprising, just disturbing. (Some of ya'll thought catching Tim McVeigh in 24 hours was a lucky break)

What I find disheartening is the insipid manner in which our Congress members spew forth drivel about this being un-American & not one has mentioned stopping it.
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This I agree with. The rest I am not sure about since I am sure wiretapping precedes Clinton
 
Ring ring

Hullo Mohammed?

did you get that cesium 137 I fed-ex'ed

Oh yes, thank you

Allah be praised

click click
 
freako104 said:
This I agree with. The rest I am not sure about since I am sure wiretapping precedes Clinton
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It precedes Kennedy. The argument is that (at least for any personal information) you are supposed to get a warrant.
 
A sticky wicket indeed

while you needn't obtain a warrant to gather intelligence
on the activities of enemy combatants

(although in this case they actually are!)

How about if the NSA is eavesdropping and overhears
a murder for hire plot conspiracy type of thing

can they pass along this information to other agencies to act on?

and of course being warrant-less,
this convo would of course be wholly inadmissible in an American court of law

funny thing is and perhaps more importantly

if Johnny jihad is rappin' to his controller overseas
there ISN'T one damn thing stopping our dudes
from waltzing over there and
whippin' a little extra-judicial terminate with extreme prejudice action
on their dirty night shirt wearin' asses

R U beginning to get the picture, Holmes?
 
chcr said:
It precedes Kennedy. The argument is that (at least for any personal information) you are supposed to get a warrant.
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To do almost any kind of legal search you need a warrant.
 
Warrants are needed in criminal matters. Military matters, in a war zone, are not subject to the D.A.

Intersting point Winks...if a NSA employee overhears any person, in America, plotting, planning, rehearsing or readying a crime, in America, they can't even report it to their boss. (even if they overheard plans for a Presidential assassination)
 
Gonz said:
Intersting point Winks...if a NSA employee overhears any person, in America, plotting, planning, rehearsing or readying a crime, in America, they can't even report it to their boss. (even if they overheard plans for a Presidential assassination)
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Not true,he could report it and prevent it ,but laying charges would be useless.In that case a sharp shooter would negate the need for a trial anyway.
 
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