Peaceful protest...

My point was that they actually let him speak - sure their protest post hoc got a big rowdy, but at least he got his right to free speech. So did they..although they didn't exactly use it wisely.

Would this group have pelted Chavez? Maybe. or another group would've .. but we'll never know.
 
MrBishop said:
My point was that they actually let him speak - sure their protest post hoc got a big rowdy, but at least he got his right to free speech. So did they..although they didn't exactly use it wisely.
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Sorry. Free speech ends when physical attempts to harm begin. Wisely or not, those students broke the law, and should be punished accordingly. Anything else is pure, unadulterated :bs:

Bish said:
Would this group have pelted Chavez? Maybe. or another group would've .. but we'll never know.
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Chavez did speak in the US...outside the UN, too. Nobody threw things at him, and the police kept all the protestors at bay. Happened in NYC towards the end of last year. About the same time he did his UN speech calling GW the devil.
 
Gato_Solo said:
Sorry. Free speech ends when physical attempts to harm begin. Wisely or not, those students broke the law, and should be punished accordingly. Anything else is pure, unadulterated :bs:



Chavez did speak in the US...outside the UN, too. Nobody threw things at him, and the police kept all the protestors at bay. Happened in NYC towards the end of last year. About the same time he did his UN speech calling GW the devil.
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Didn't say they shouldn't be punished for the throwing things...but what happened before was an exercise in free speech.
 
An exercise in free speech is when one group hears what it doesn't like & sets up a counter speech...or perhaps a direct debate.

This is an attempt to stop the speaker from speaking. negative feedback-"If I speak, I get pelted, so I shouldn't speak."
 
Nobody tried to stop him from speaking in the story.

They just threw crap at him later cause he's an ass. The handful of people that threw things should have found a better way though.
 
Gonz said:
An exercise in free speech is when one group hears what it doesn't like & sets up a counter speech...or perhaps a direct debate.
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They let him speak...they attacked him as he and his party were departing. Shows a distinct lack of sense...
 
Gonz said:
Would they have pelted Hugo Chavez?
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rove and hugo are both assholes with ideologies so far from reality that they shouldn't be anywhere near seats of power.

"seats of power."

that's a funny phrase.

sounds like me when i'm all farty.
 
Just what is Karl Roves ideology? We know Hugos inclination towards Stalin. Rove is a wicked helmsman for the Republicans but his ideology escapes me.
 
isn't he the poster boy for the so-called "neocon" view of the world? you know, the one that is overtly and intentionally idealist ("we will have democracy in the middle east") and NOT realist. and the one that leverages the evangelicals yet actually despises them...
 
I don't know what a neocon is either. Either you is or you ain't. Is having beliefs & standards, and living by them, a bad thing? Expecting others to live by a set of societal conditions, in order to have peace & tranquility is a problem?

Giving, or allowing the opportunity, for freedom to take hold is not only for westerners, is it? Democratic rule, in some form or another, is the ideal (unless there is a better way) & one that can be achieved, whether by white Euro settlers or Arabic Islamists.

The enemy here, and there, is fanatacism. A fanaticism that is willing to enter our realm to attack & destroy. If they were happy to go about their lives & leave us to ours, it wouldn't be a problem.

They aren't, so it is.

Instead of allowing this man to speak his peace & be gone, these people, along with many others, want him shut down. If they can't get the system to do it, they'll create a scenario where he, and other like him, are unwilling to speak...not because of opposition but because of the threat of violence.

Say, do I see a pattern?
 
Gonz said:
Is having beliefs & standards, and living by them, a bad thing? Expecting others to live by a set of societal conditions, in order to have peace & tranquility is a problem?
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not really... but to think that rove et al's ideals apply 'over there' is utterly absurb.

Gonz said:
Giving, or allowing the opportunity, for freedom to take hold is not only for westerners, is it? Democratic rule, in some form or another, is the ideal (unless there is a better way) & one that can be achieved, whether by white Euro settlers or Arabic Islamists.
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the conditions under which 'democracy' has been able to exist here are a rare set of historical particularities. should the US pay out the nose and assume nearly endless debt in order to try to force democracy where the ground is infertile? no, that would be stupid and idealistic. fuck that.

Gonz said:
The enemy here, and there, is fanatacism. A fanaticism that is willing to enter our realm to attack & destroy. If they were happy to go about their lives & leave us to ours, it wouldn't be a problem.

They aren't, so it is.

Instead of allowing this man to speak his peace & be gone, these people, along with many others, want him shut down. If they can't get the system to do it, they'll create a scenario where he, and other like him, are unwilling to speak...not because of opposition but because of the threat of violence.

Say, do I see a pattern?
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yes, there is a clear pattern. using the fear of 'fanatics' to justify the aforementioned spending and 'endless debt,' and to disguise an utter lack of innovative thinking in coming up with ways to invigorate the domestic economy and help us compete better in the world market against rising assholes like china. you know, something STRATEGIC. but that's too hard for pea-brains like W.

so some stupid college kids threw some shit at him. maybe they just threw it because he's an asshole.

yeah, i'm sure rove is real intimidated.... of course he has a right to be heard, and considering the influence he has on W, i think he sure hell has been "heard."
 
Invigorate a domestic economy that is settings record market numbers & has virtually full employment (and has for about a decade)? In a country where the poor have color TVS & automobiles, not to mention cell phones & Nike. Those aren't exactly high priorities bu they say a lot about the state when we're so well fed & housed that we buy shit instead of worrying about our next meal. An ecomony that has a debt bigger than most countries full economies & yet, it's less than 3% of GDP.

The fear of fanatics doesn't come from GW & Dick nor Nancy & Billary, it comes form watching our buildings fall down. Although, much (if not all) of todays political climate comes form over 4 years of pessimism & degrading the efforts to put an end to the agression towards the US. It's been building since 1979. (hey, look who was involved then too). Somebody had to take a stand. He's been under constant & building pressure since then. So much so that the people have forgotten (they've been forgetting for some time now) & have grown sick & tired of the bickering (even though everything GW has done has been done per the Constitution & with consent of Congress (damn near unaminous support). It's no longer politically important to win the war. It's only important to win the election.
 
2minkey said:
hmmm yeah i think the debt we're building is a little more significant than you think it is...
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America has become more a debt 'junkie' - - than ever before
with total debt of $48 Trillion - - and the highest debt ratio in history.

That's $161,287 per man, woman and child - - or $645,148 per family of 4,
$45,514 more debt per family than last year.

Last year total debt increased $3.9 Trillion, 5 times more than GDP.
External debt owed foreign interests increased $1 Trillion;
Household, business and financial sector debt soared 9%.

72% ($35 trillion) of total debt was created since 1990,
a period primarily driven by debt instead of by productive activity.

And, the above does not include un-funded pensions and medical promises.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat.htm

Gonz is thinking about the growth in deficit (3.5%)
 
certainly talking Big hankees - and quite possibly a ghost-buster style containment doodah...
 
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