Prop 19: Marijuana Legalization Gets its Number in California

[ResearchMonkey]

You really can't help yourself can you?

I cannot possibly figure out why you might reframe the conversation by attempting to introduce my long ago history with meth? -- Trouble focusing, or is it something else? Either way, I'm sure you see it as a brilliant move from your fun-factory. .

Oh yeah, I remember why you did it, ... because you can't help it

THC also artificially stimulates a part of the brain called the amygdala which a region of the brain that assigns novelty or emotional significance to objects and ideas someone encounter in their environment. -- This is significant to you. Potheads always think they have some unnoticed internalized streak of brilliance, they are flattered by their ideas no matter how insane that thought might be.

Thanks for producing this^ fine example so effortlessly.

You'll get no citations, all of that was off the top of my head and I just don't see any point in wasting my time on your willing ignorance. If you really wanted to know the truth, could handle the truth, you would make an effort to understand what i wrote for you.



However, I am glad you had an opportunity to learn something about methamphetamine hydrochloride , too bad it won't stick to stupid.

 

[spike]

You really can't help yourself can you?

I cannot possibly figure out why you might reframe the conversation by attempting to introduce my long ago history with meth?

OMGZ. I talked about something real that you've talked about before instead of making bullshit up ...all while not throwing a temper tantrum. I didn't have to make up some fantasy world or accuse you of something that never happened either.

You'll get no citations, all of that was off the top of my head

I figured that. You make stuff up...I disprove it right away. Then you run away or troll.

However, I am glad you had an opportunity to learn something about methamphetamine hydrochloride

I already knew how much you damaged yourself with that shit a long time ago. You made it obvious.

Did you prefer to smoke, snort, or shoot?

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Oh my little sycophant, those facts I posted above are solid science that you are simply unwilling to accept.

You've only managed to prove that you are truly an idiot who revels in his own ignorance.

Enjoy another blissful day my friend.

 

[Professur]

Spike, I'm trying to not give up on you, but you have to try a little yourself.

Alcohol - water. Try it. You're a grown up. How many drinks does it take you to get a hangover? You yourself. 5, 6? 10? Sit down and drink that much water. Unless you're seriously out to do yourself harm, you'll float your back teeth before you drink that much water. It's not just the hydration, but it slows down your alcohol intake, and imposes a capacity limit on just how much you physically can drink in an evening. I'm not making this up, I've done it. Add half a gallon of water to your night out and you won't be drinking half a gallon of beer in it's place.


As for self preservation .... I find it hard to believe you have to be explained the consequences of being arrested and going to jail. Perhaps you missed that part of the discussion, or were distracted by the speed related deaths.

 

[spike]

Oh my little sycophant, those facts I posted above are solid science that you are simply unwilling to accept.

I addressed everything you said with facts and evidence that supports what I am saying. If you are unable to address my points then you have failed again and predictably you will just troll.

 

[Winky]

poot poot poot

`

Continuously posted by Spike:

-My recommendation, assassinate the jigga-boo and be done with it.

-a beanner a gook and a negro good job!

-When yer house neegro brings about the next 9-11

 

[spike]

Spike, I'm trying to not give up on you, but you have to try a little yourself.

Prof, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and addressed every point you made. I'm sorry you weren't able to prove your point.

Alcohol - water. Try it. You're a grown up. How many drinks does it take you to get a hangover? You yourself. 5, 6? 10? Sit down and drink that much water. Unless you're seriously out to do yourself harm, you'll float your back teeth before you drink that much water. It's not just the hydration, but it slows down your alcohol intake, and imposes a capacity limit on just how much you physically can drink in an evening. I'm not making this up, I've done it. Add half a gallon of water to your night out and you won't be drinking half a gallon of beer in it's place.

As I've shown drinking water can lessen the effects of a hangover but not prevent it. It certainly won't keep you from getting drunk...otherwise most drinkers wouldn't do it at all. I've done pretty much what you suggested many times so I'm familiar with the outcome.

As for self preservation .... I find it hard to believe you have to be explained the consequences of being arrested and going to jail. Perhaps you missed that part of the discussion, or were distracted by the speed related deaths.

I guess I'll just ask you again. If they outlawed all alcohol again and your neighbor some really good "whatever you like to drink" would you report him? Call him a stupid criminal? Turn him down if he offered you some? Make your own? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Professur]

Were it illegal, I'd refuse ... and leave the premises. And reconsider who I call friend at that point. I've lived with neighbours who grew pot in their back yard. So long at they kept it to themselves, it was their problem. When the plants grew tall enough to be visible over my fence ... I mentioned that fact to them. The plants were there after not visible.

I'm not a cop, and what they did on their own premises was their own business. Likewise, I live on a quiet road. Every once in a while, someone down the road will race up it. So long as they've made sure that the road is empty and safe ... I see no need to call the cops on them. Do I think they're idiots? Yup. Do I invite the pot heads to share a BBQ? Nope. Do I think they're all criminals? Yes. Do I think they're doing wrong? Now there's the true question. No, I don't. But I do seriously worry at the mentality that thinks that 'victimless crime' is somehow less damaging to society than any other. A criminal is a criminal at the root, no matter how you try to twist it. A liar is a liar, a cheater a cheat, a criminal a criminal ... none to be trusted ... because if they can ignore one rule when it suits them, what's to stop them ignoring the next one?

What it all comes down to is that I do think that pot should be legal ... I just don't believe that most people can be trusted to use it responsibly. I honestly don't believe that most of them should be allowed alcohol or driver's licenses either.

 

[spike]

Were it illegal, I'd refuse ... and leave the premises. And reconsider who I call friend at that point.

I find it odd that if they decided to bring back prohibition that you'd reconsider being friends with beer drinkers.

what they did on their own premises was their own business.

I agree there.

But I do seriously worry at the mentality that thinks that 'victimless crime' is somehow less damaging to society than any other.

It's inherently less damaging. It's right in the name.

because if they can ignore one rule when it suits them, what's to stop them ignoring the next one?

Maybe there being a victim would stop a lot of them.

What it all comes down to is that I do think that pot should be legal ... I just don't believe that most people can be trusted to use it responsibly. I honestly don't believe that most of them should be allowed alcohol or driver's licenses either.

The way I see it you should have freedom unless you demonstrate that you can't be trusted with it. That's the way it normally works with driver's licenses. You abuse it and put other people at risk and they take it away.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

.....But I do seriously worry at the mentality that thinks that 'victimless crime' is somehow less damaging to society than any other. .....

... I just don't believe that most people can be trusted to use it responsibly....

I agree with this, the longer and larger effects on society are the real issue. My feeling depend on the social model of government you have.

In a socialist society the effect of drugs becomes my problem and burden. The diminished abilities and production of drug users are a drag on the productive members of society. I don't want to pay for the related social programs like housing, welfare or medical/mental health treatment to extend your life.

In a free capitalist society you have the freedom to destroy yourself. As long as you expect nothing from me or my taxes, willing to live as a less productive individual, it has a minimal effect on me and my life. If you choose to use dope, you get to carry all the responsibility for the related cost and effects for your life time. This is similar to the survival of the fittest, I'm all for letting people live their own life to death.

Despite what some may think, dope has many bad long term physical effects on the body and mind. The long term effects on society could be compared to lead poison in the Roman days. As we are able to keep people alive much longer, despite someones poor life choices, we have damaged people living longer and reproducing. If you want the freedom to smoke pot, you have to fully accept the ramifications of a lesser life and not expect others to carry your slack.

I would love to know the number relationships of dopers and people who believe in and vote for socialist politics. -- I bet it's astounding.

 

[spike]

Despite what some may think, dope has many bad long term physical effects on the body and mind.

There's not a whole lot of support for this claim but let's say it's true

It is undeniable that alcohol has far more severe long term physical effects on the body and mind. So what rational reason do you have for making a bigger deal out of pot?

 

[Winky]

Let em all smoke Marijuana free nachos for all

Spike you ignorant slut

 

[spike]

Re: Let em all smoke Marijuana free nachos for all

re-read his post
in the world we envision we aren't our brothers keepers
made so at the point of a gun.

If someone wants to blunder thru their days on this planet
in a pot induced haze or shoot up smack let em but hold em accountable
which would quickly result in their incarceration for other offenses or early death.

the government shouldn’t tell you what to drink smoke or shoot
and by the same token isn’t responsible for redistributing the fruits of your neighbor
labor to you either.

a stupid pothead is just that a stupid pothead
why do you think they call it dope?

What the hell does all that have to do with the difference between alcohol and marijuana? A stupid alcoholic is just a stupid alcoholic too. Brilliant.

I do get the idea that your for the legalization so ...

 

[valkyrie]

Were it illegal, I'd refuse ... and leave the premises. And reconsider who I call friend at that point. I've lived with neighbours who grew pot in their back yard. So long at they kept it to themselves, it was their problem. When the plants grew tall enough to be visible over my fence ... I mentioned that fact to them. The plants were there after not visible.

I'm not a cop, and what they did on their own premises was their own business. Likewise, I live on a quiet road. Every once in a while, someone down the road will race up it. So long as they've made sure that the road is empty and safe ... I see no need to call the cops on them. Do I think they're idiots? Yup. Do I invite the pot heads to share a BBQ? Nope. Do I think they're all criminals? Yes. Do I think they're doing wrong? Now there's the true question. No, I don't. But I do seriously worry at the mentality that thinks that 'victimless crime' is somehow less damaging to society than any other. A criminal is a criminal at the root, no matter how you try to twist it. A liar is a liar, a cheater a cheat, a criminal a criminal ... none to be trusted ... because if they can ignore one rule when it suits them, what's to stop them ignoring the next one?

What it all comes down to is that I do think that pot should be legal ... I just don't believe that most people can be trusted to use it responsibly. I honestly don't believe that most of them should be allowed alcohol or driver's licenses either.

I disagree with some of what you say here but, well put, Prof. +1 (If I could add to your reputation I would. I have to spread it around first.)

 

[valkyrie]

Drinking water can lessen the effects of a hangover but will not totally prevent them and it certainly won't keep you from getting drunk.

"The only sure way to prevent a hangover is to avoid drinking. While you may not be able to totally prevent a hangover, drinking a lot of water or other rehydrating drink will go a long way toward preventing or lessening most hangover symptoms."

It's also not just the dehydration.

"Drinking an alcoholic beverage that contains impurities or preservatives can give you a hangover, even if you only have one drink. Some of these impurities may be other alcohols besides ethanol. Other hangover-causing chemicals are congeners, which are by-products of the fermentation process. Sometimes impurities are intentionally added, such as zinc or other metals which may be added to sweeten or enhance the flavor of certain liqueurs. Otherwise, it matters what you drink and how much you drink. Drinking to excess is more likely to cause a hangover than drinking moderately. You get a hangover because the ethanol in the drink caused increase urine production, leading to dehydration. Dehydration causes headaches, fatigue, and dry mouth. Alcohol also reacts with the stomach lining, which can lead to nausea. Ethanol is metabolized into acetaldehyde, which is actually a lot more toxic, mutagenic, and carcinogenic than the alcohol itself. It takes time to break down the acetaldehyde into acetic acid, during which you'll experience all the symptoms of acetaldehyde exposure."

http://chemistry.about.com/od/everydaychemistry/a/hangovers.htm

Not sure how accurate this is but it was an interesting read...

"Once alcohol reachs a certain concentration in your blood it will first cause an osmotic diuresis, causing you to produce a lot more urine.. much the same as the effect of a high glucose in a diabetic.. this is when you start to lose water regardless of how much you drink.. after a while your alcohol level will reach a point where it will affect osmo receptors in the hyperthalamus stopping the production of ADH (anti-diauretic hormone) otherwise known as AVP (arginine vasopressin) whose job it is to cause reabsorption of water in the kidneys.. "

http://www.ukqna.com/science/2983-science-ukqna.html

I'm not sure why we're debating this. Obviously someone who drinks a lot is more likely to have negative effects the next day. The smoker doesn't even have to drink a bunch of water to try to lessen anything.



What are you talking about with the "self preservation"? Marijuana doesn't have much in the way of negative effects to your self preservation. Of course alcohol is far more dangerous.

Speeding is inherently endangers other people. Alcohol and marijuana do not.

They should not be criminal and prohibition doesn't work with either. If they outlawed all alcohol again and your neighbor some really good "whatever you like to drink" would you report him? Call him a stupid criminal? Turn him down if he offered you some? Make your own? I'm genuinely curious.

Water will help flush the impurities and hydration can help with the hangover affect. You are correct about the impurities. I do not drink anything but winter wheat vodka, or 100% pure agave tequila, etc. I'm very picky about what I drink because of the other alcohols and impurities that make your organs work harder to clean themselves out after ingesting the beverage.

Whether or not marijuana is more or less dangerous than alcohol is going to depend on the individual and the amount that person ingests/smokes. Typically I do not smoke much weed and when I do it is almost exclusively the best pot I can get at the time. Better weed = less smoked/ingested. The same holds true with alcohol. Better alcohol = less ingested. The goal should be just to relax in both situations, not get fucked up wasted.

 

[spike]

Winter wheat vodka? Gonna go look that up. Vodka/water is my drink...and of course beer.

 

[chcr]

Ain't Nobody's Business...
An illuminating read. I recommend it.

If driving was a right, they couldn't pull your license for back child support.

Actually, driving is a skill. Unfortunately, said skill is not required to get a license to operate a motor vehicle.

 

[Gonz]

Ain't Nobody's Business...

While I completely agree with the premise, like it or not, it is crime. Anyone committing these crimes needs to be treated as a criminal. However, just as soon as the laws can be changed, let it be so.

As long as teh other side understands, those willing to undertake these freedoms do so at their own risk. No tax money shall be spent to cure, fix or feed them in their failings.

 

[spike]

As long as teh other side understands, those willing to undertake these freedoms do so at their own risk. No tax money shall be spent to cure, fix or feed them in their failings.

So same as alcohol?

 

[valkyrie]

Winter wheat vodka? Gonna go look that up. Vodka/water is my drink...and of course beer.

Try a Gin and tonic. It's old fashioned-y. Makes me think of old British geezers sitting with fans on a porch in pre-independent India yammering on about shooting stuff. I don't know why that makes me laugh but it does. I think it's because I read Freedom At Midnight and all those geezers had to pack up and go back to England to live out the rest of their boring lives as broke pensioners leaving their luxurious lives back in India living artificially cheap off the labors of others. ROFLMAO! Ah, Karma.

Yeah... my mind wanders off to strange places.