Prop 8 upheld

Cerise

Well-Known Member
Carrie=1
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Chalk one up for the people's vote.

A Victory for Democracy: California judges leave gay marriage to voters

"It bears emphasis . . . that our role is limited to interpreting and applying the principles and rules embodied in the California Constitution, setting aside our own personal beliefs and values." That sigh of judicial restraint was actually issued by the California Supreme Court, which yesterday upheld Proposition 8, last year's ballot initiative prohibiting same-sex marriage in the state.
 
It was a CYA measure by the court.

They upheld the peoples right to change their constitution but allowed the "marriages" already performed to stand, covering their earlier decision.
 
52/48 is a simple majority, but IMO you'd need a larger majority in order to call anything "The will of the people"
 
Marriage.jpg
 
potentially 156000000 is one hell of a simple majority
159411458 vs. 147149039
A difference of 12262420

If you count every man, woman and child regardless of their ability to vote.





Year 2008
People legally allowed to vote 231,299,580* (Not number of actual registrations)
Actual voters 132,618,580

so... 68,961,662 vs. 63,656,918 or a difference of 5,304,473

Yup..simple majority.
 
Well, if someone wants to play the card of nearly 69 million not really being much of a majority, one could also play the card of 63.7 million trying to force their will on 242.9 million other people.

Oh, and then using such conversation-stopper words as "hate."
 
Well, if someone wants to play the card of nearly 69 million not really being much of a majority, one could also play the card of 63.7 million trying to force their will on 242.9 million other people.

or vice-versa.

one group wants to regulate the behavior of others.

one group simply wants to live how they choose.

hmmm. i wonder which viewpoint is more american?

(actually, they both are, because moralistic conformity is just as rich a cultural tradition in america as that of individual liberties. and often they coincide in bizarre arrangements, such as those arguing a right to keep a bunch of underage girls for breeding purposes 'cuz jesus told them to.)

FUCK YEAH!!!!!
 
159411458 vs. 147149039
A difference of 12262420

If you count every man, woman and child regardless of their ability to vote.





Year 2008
People legally allowed to vote 231,299,580* (Not number of actual registrations)
Actual voters 132,618,580

so... 68,961,662 vs. 63,656,918 or a difference of 5,304,473

Yup..simple majority.



People in glass houses. How many separatist referendums are you willing to pay for until they finally win? When they finally win, think you'll ever see a referendum to challenge that win ... even though they challenged ours 5 times or more?
 
I'd rather not pay for any at all...but, then again, I'm not alone. It's been a while since one was held..they're still waiting for "Winning conditions" Ha! That'll be the day.

My opinion on it is that if there ever is a vote for separation, that the natives should get ALL their land back and that Montreal should stay part of Canada.

I seriously doubt that you or I shall ever see the day where a referendum actually passes.
 
But you agree that it's ridiculous that we're obliged to keep paying for a referendum each and every time the PQ come into power .... despite the fact that they're really the only opposition the Libs have.
 
Gay community disappointed with Obama
By Lee-Anne Goodman, THE CANADIAN PRESS

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President Barack Obama arrives to deliver remarks on securing the nation's cyber infrastructure, Friday, May 29, 2009, in the East Room of the White House in Washington. THE ASSOCIATED PRESS/Gerald Herbert

WASHINGTON - Gays and lesbians voted for President Barack Obama almost en masse after he pledged to be a relentless advocate for their civil rights while making his run for the White House.

But now the disappointment felt among the gay community about Obama's inaction on issues that include same-sex marriage and the military's so-called "don't ask, don't tell" policy is turning into outright anger.

"It's disgraceful ... shame on him," Kate Waldeck, a 26-year-old medical student in New York City who voted for Obama believing he represented change on issues affecting the community.

The outrage is growing in the aftermath of last week's California Supreme Court decision to uphold the state's same-sex marriage ban.

Obama has had nothing to say about the ruling, something that has stung many in the community who had assumed the president might speak out against it and reiterate his commitment to their cause.

"I had sincerely hoped that Obama, both as a liberal and as a minority, might view this issue for what it is: an attempt at decency, and an opportunity to bestow long-deserved freedoms to people who have suffered through abuse and discrimination since the beginning of time," Waldeck said in a recent interview.


Instead, Waldeck alleges, Obama is "sacrificing our lives to appease people, voters, interest groups, by allowing hate and bias to propagate."

The Propublica website, an online newsroom founded by a former managing editor of the Wall Street Journal, has discovered that the White House site has recently deleted significant content detailing Obama's past remarks and senatorial voting record on gay and lesbian issues.

Among the material removed was a quote from June 2007 in which Obama said the issue of civil rights for gays and lesbians was too often "exploited by those seeking to divide us."

"But at its core, this issue is about who we are as Americans. It's about whether this nation is going to live up to its founding promise of equality by treating all its citizens with dignity and respect."

Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006, an act which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.

While on the campaign trail, Obama also frequently railed against the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, a federal law that prohibits openly gay Americans from serving.

The policy has resulted in long-standing military personnel getting kicked out of the army, including much-needed Arabic translators. The Pentagon recently said they would continue with "don't ask, don't tell."

Obama's virtual silence on both issues comes at a period of time when public opinion surveys suggest the majority of Americans are still opposed to same-sex marriage, although they have no problem with gays serving in the military.

A recent Gallup poll found 57 per cent of Americans are against same-sex marriage. But support for such unions has been steadily growing for years, particularly among those aged 40 and under.

Lorri Jean, the executive director of the Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Center, wrote an open letter to Obama last week, taking him to task for dropping the ball on issues concerning the gay community.

"We've waited for the slightest sign you would live up to your promise to be a 'fierce advocate' for our equal rights while watching gay and lesbian members of the armed forces, who have never been more needed, get discharged from the military," she wrote.

"And so far you have done nothing. No stop loss order. No call to cease such foolish and discriminatory actions."

Michael Rowe, a Canadian journalist and author who's written about the simmering rage on the Huffington Post website, says the western world is watching Obama on the issue of civil rights for gays and lesbians.

Canada, in particular, looks progressive and civilized compared to its southern neighbour, Rowe said Sunday from his home in Toronto.

"We're always comparing ourselves to Americans, sometimes negatively, and this puts in stark contrast the fundamental differences between Canada and the United States," said Rowe, the author of "Other Men's Sons."

"Same-sex marriage was not put up to a popular vote in Canada, and discriminating against gays in the military was outlawed almost overnight ... we had a very Canadian, very reasoned and calm approach to both issues, and we have a hell of a lot to be proud of."

The U.S. is eventually heading there too, Rowe forecasts, thanks to a gay community that has come together to put up a concerted and pitched battle for civil rights.

"It's a new generation in the gay community and they're really well-organized, they're sick of being yanked around and they're angry," he said.

"What's also happening is it's finally striking a chord with mainstream America, with mainstream legislators, with people who aren't gay. And what they're saying, especially on 'don't ask, don't tell,' is that this is just ridiculous and shameful," said Rowe.

Waldeck predicts historians will not treat Obama kindly as they look back upon a modern-day civil rights battle.

"He's placing himself on the wrong side of history," she said. "These rights will eventually be obtained, and those who fight to classify any law-abiding citizen as unequal under the law will be seen as close-minded fools who fought to deny others out of malice and fear."


source


You wanted change, you got change. He changed .... his mind.
 
But you agree that it's ridiculous that we're obliged to keep paying for a referendum each and every time the PQ come into power .... despite the fact that they're really the only opposition the Libs have.
Sure...also why I vote ADQ when the libs let me down. I'd rather that the PQ fall off the map, but that's wishful thinking.

Marriage-related laws are not the only laws that come under fire every so often though.

Roe v Wade gets dragged through the courts yearly and dusted off for every political campaign, but you'd have about as much success trying to tell the pro-lifers to stop contesting it as you will getting the pro same-sex marriage crowd to stop contesting Prop8-type legislation. :shrug:

It's a volatile issue which is splitting the country into two parties. It's the American way ;)

Give it a few months and you'll see it going back upstairs to the Supreme Court using the 14th Due process and right to privacy issues to overturn it.
 
I think all the best ideas come from the persepective of ones nether regions....
 
I thought I wasn't the only one that knew that Obama is against same-sex marriage.

Also, it's been said that Obama's run for the presidency was a big part of Prop 8 passing in California because he brought out the black vote and blacks tend to oppose gay marriage.
 
yeah i think a lot of us knew that.

obama is wrong about several things. fortunately, not everyone (yourself included) is caught up in the imaginary, irrational, bullshit cheerleading whirlwind of "everything obama is wrong holy fucking foreigner muslim commie!!!!"
 
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