SCotUS upholde photo ID voting laws

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Looks like the Democrats are going to have to find a new way to try to steal elections. They were, and continue to be, opposed to laws requiring people to present ID before voting. I wonder why ... hmmmmmm

In the 6-3 decision, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote the opinion which was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Anthony Kennedy. Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas agreed in separate opinions. Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter dissented.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_voter_id

Supreme Court says states can demand photo ID for voting By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer
Mon Apr 28, 6:09 PM ET

WASHINGTON - States can require voters to produce photo identification, the Supreme Court ruled Monday, upholding a Republican-inspired law that Democrats say will keep some poor, older and minority voters from casting ballots.

Twenty-five states require some form of ID, and the court's 6-3 decision rejecting a challenge to Indiana's strict voter ID law could encourage others to adopt their own measures. Oklahoma legislators said the decision should help them get a version approved.

The ruling means the ID requirement will be in effect for next week's presidential primary in Indiana, where a significant number of new voters are expected to turn out for the Democratic contest between Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.

The results could say something about the effect of the law, either because a large number of voters will lack identification and be forced to cast provisional ballots or because the number turns out to be small.

Supporters of the law say it's all about preventing fraud.

[more]
 
More on this -- before the decision:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110011102

FROM THE OPINIONJOURNAL ARCHIVES
JOHN FUND ON THE TRAIL

Voter-Fraud Showdown
How can anyone object to asking for ID?
Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:01 a.m. EST

Supporters and critics of Indiana's law requiring voters to show a photo ID at the polls square off in oral arguments before the Supreme Court today. The heated rhetoric surrounding the case lays bare the ideological conflict of visions raging over efforts to improve election integrity.

Supporters say photo ID laws simply extend rules that require everyone to show such ID to travel, enter federal office buildings or pick up a government check. An honor system for voting, in their view, invites potential fraud. That's because many voting rolls are stuffed with the names of dead people and duplicate registrations--as recent scandals in Washington state and Missouri involving the activist group ACORN attest.

Opponents say photo ID laws block poor, minority and elderly voters who lack ID from voting, and all in the name of combating a largely mythical problem of voter fraud.

Some key facts will determine the outcome, as the court weighs the potential the law has to combat fraud versus the barriers it erects to voting. The liberal Brennan Center at NYU Law School reports that a nationwide telephone survey it conducted found that 11% of the voting-age public lacks government-issued photo ID, including an implausible 25% of African-Americans.

But U.S. District Judge Sarah Evans Barker, who first upheld Indiana's photo ID law in 2006, cited a state study that found 99% of the voting-age population had the necessary photo ID. Judge Barker also noted that Indiana provided a photo ID for free to anyone who could prove their identity, and that critics of the law "have produced not a single piece of evidence of any identifiable registered voter who would be prevented from voting."

Since then, liberal groups have pointed to last November's mayoral election in Indianapolis as giving real-life examples of people prevented from voting. The 34 voters out of 165,000 who didn't have the proper ID were allowed to cast a provisional ballot, and could have had their votes counted by going to a clerk's office within 10 days to show ID or sign an affidavit attesting to their identity. Two chose to do so, but 32 did not.

Indeed, a new study by Jeffrey Milyo of the Truman Institute of Public Policy on Indiana's voter turnout in 2006 did not find evidence that counties with more poor, elderly or minority voters had "any reduction in voter turnout relative to other counties."

Opponents of photo ID laws make a valid point that, while Indiana has a clear problem with absentee-ballot fraud (a mayoral election in East Chicago, Ind., was invalidated by the state's Supreme Court in 2003), there isn't a documented problem of voter impersonation. "The state has to demonstrate that this risk of fraud is more than fanciful. And it really isn't," says Ken Falk, legal director for the ACLU of Indiana.

But Indiana officials make the obvious point that, without a photo ID requirement, in-person fraud is "nearly impossible to detect or investigate." A grand jury report prepared by then-Brooklyn District Attorney Elizabeth Holtzman in the 1980s revealed how difficult it is to catch perpetrators. It detailed a massive, 14-year conspiracy in which crews of individuals were recruited to go to polling places and vote in the names of fraudulently registered voters, dead voters, and voters who had moved. "The ease and boldness with which these fraudulent schemes were carried out shows the vulnerability of our entire electoral process to unscrupulous and fraudulent misrepresentation," the report concluded. No indictments were issued thanks to the statute of limitations, and because of grants of immunity in return for testimony.

Even modest in-person voter fraud creates trouble in close races. In Washington state's disputed 2004 governor's race, which was won by 129 votes, the election superintendent in Seattle testified in state court that ineligible felons had voted and votes had been cast in the name of the dead. In Milwaukee, Wis., investigators found that, in the state's close 2004 presidential election, more than 200 felons voted illegally and more than 100 people voted twice. In Florida, where the entire 2000 presidential election was decided by 547 votes, almost 65,000 dead people are still listed on the voter rolls--an engraved invitation to fraud. A New York Daily News investigation in 2006 found that between 400 and 1,000 voters registered in Florida and New York City had voted twice in at least one recent election.

Laws tightening up absentee-ballot fraud, which is a more serious problem than in-person voting, would be welcome. But, curiously, almost all of the groups opposing the photo ID law before the Supreme Court today either oppose specific efforts to combat absentee-ballot fraud or are silent on them.

No matter how much voter fraud is caused by voter impersonation, Stuart Taylor of the National Journal reports that "polls show voters increasingly distrust the integrity of the electoral process." He also notes that a 2006 NBC/Wall Street Journal nationwide poll found that, by a 80%-7% margin, those surveyed supported voters showing "a valid photo identification." The idea had overwhelming support among all races and income groups.

That sweeping support helps explain why, in 2005, 18 of 21 members of a bipartisan federal commission headed by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker came out in support of photo ID requirements more stringent than Indiana's. "Voters in nearly 100 democracies use a photo identification card without fear of infringement on their rights," the commission stated. Mr. Carter feels strongly about voter fraud. In his book, "Turning Point," he wrote of his race for Georgia State Senate in 1962, which involved a corrupt local sheriff who had cast votes for the dead. It took a recount and court intervention before Mr. Carter was declared the winner.

Right now, half the states have decided that some kind of ID should be required to vote. It makes sense for the Supreme Court to allow federalism to work its will state-by-state. In 2006, the court unanimously overturned a Ninth Circuit ruling that had blocked an Arizona voter ID law. In doing so, the court noted that anyone without an ID is by federal law always allowed to cast a provisional ballot that can be verified later. The court also noted that fraud "drives honest citizens out of the democratic process and breeds distrust of our government. Voters who fear their legitimate votes will be outweighed by fraudulent ones will feel disenfranchised."

So the high court itself has already defined the nub of the case it is hearing today. On one side are those who claim photo IDs will block some voters from casting ballots, but offer scant evidence. On the other side are those who believe photo ID laws can act as a deterrent to irregularities the public increasingly views as undermining election integrity. Given the obvious political nature of the argument, here's hoping a clear Supreme Court majority reprises its 2006 finding and holds that such questions are best resolved by the elected branches of government and not by unaccountable courts.
 
The Democrats steal elections. :rofl3:

I'm glad you made that a declarative, rather than an interrogative, statement.

Ever heard of ACORN? Well here is some of their handiwork.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003808207_votefraud27m.html

Seven charged in vote-fraud scheme
By Keith Ervin

Seattle Times staff reporter

Workers accused of concocting the biggest voter-registration-fraud scheme in state history said they were under pressure from the community-organizing group that hired them to sign up more voters, according to charging papers filed Thursday.

To boost their output, the defendants allegedly went to the downtown Seattle Public Library, where they filled out voter-registration forms using names they made up or found in phone books, newspapers and baby-naming books.

One defendant "said it was hard work making up all those cards," and another "said he would often sit at home, smoke marijuana and fill out cards," according to a probable-cause statement written by King County sheriff's Detective Christopher Johnson.

Prosecutors in King and Pierce counties filed felony charges Thursday against seven employees of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, claiming they turned in more than 1,800 phony voter-registration forms, including an estimated 55 in Pierce County.

The defendants have not entered pleas. They are scheduled to be arraigned Aug. 2.

None of the defendants has been arrested in connection with the alleged scheme. Two are in jail in unrelated cases.

The defendants faked cards as an easy way to get paid, not as an attempt to influence the outcome of elections, said King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg. None of the phony registrations led to illegal voting.

"This is the worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history of the state of Washington. There has been nothing comparable to this," state Secretary of State Sam Reed said at a news conference with Satterberg, King County Executive Ron Sims and acting U.S. Attorney Jeff Sullivan.

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Right. Republicans.

Although I thought everyone did it to some extent.

?

I have shown you several examples of Democrat operative organizations getting caught and being prosecuted for vote fraud or attempted vote fraud. I used mainstream media outlet stories.

Can you do likewise for me illustrating Republican attempts to do so and using mainstream media stories?
 
there's really no point. you won't believe any source he cites anyway.

Not true. If he can come up with something from a reputable source like the Boston Globe, NYT, San Fran Chronicle, L. A. Times, Orange County Register, et al tyhen I would have no problem with believing the story. If he comes up with things from Democratic Underground, Huffington Post, et al then I will not believe what he posts.

I posted from the Seattle Times and showed a report from FoxNews. If it is truly necessary, I will post the same stories that Fox ran from the KC and St. Louis major dailies. If I had posted the same stories from Media Research Center he would have decried them as hokum.

He says that the Republicans have participated in vote fraud or voter registration fraud so he should be willing to cite his sources.
 
Just try Google.

http://www.klas-tv.com/global/story.asp?s=2421595

But Jim I think the important thing for you to learn that it's logical fallacy to find an example of something and then make sweeping generalizations. Especially when that example you found says it didn't lead to illegal voting.

That is the mode you use over and over here. Find an example and then make sweeping generalizations about some group. Also ignoring any examples of your own group doing the same thing.

Somehow you manage to ignore example after example of certain things though. Like evidence against the FLDS.
 
Not true. If he can come up with something from a reputable source

See. Look at you talking about using reputable sources when you use blatantly baised sites far more than anyone here.

Right in this thread you linked us to a diary at "Opinion Journal". How do you expect us to take you seriously?
 
Just try Google.

http://www.klas-tv.com/global/story.asp?s=2421595

But Jim I think the important thing for you to learn that it's logical fallacy to find an example of something and then make sweeping generalizations. Especially when that example you found says it didn't lead to illegal voting.

No it only led to illegal voter registration fraud which is what the story is about.

That is the mode you use over and over here. Find an example and then make sweeping generalizations about some group. Also ignoring any examples of your own group doing the same thing.

You have presented no evidence of "my" group doing anything. SEE BELOW.

Somehow you manage to ignore example after example of certain things though. Like evidence against the FLDS.

Your link is to a story from October 2004. The ACORN fraud I posted happened in July 2007.

You also failed to follow up with the stories which show that there was no attempt at disenfranchisement. You shouldn't put so much stock in disgruntled employee stories.

Las-Vegas Review-Journal
Date: November 1, 2004 That comes after October by the way
Author:
Section: Editorial
Page: 10B
Words: 451

EDITORIAL: No organized registration fraud found

The Investigation Division of the state Department of Public Safety has found no organized effort to falsify voter registration forms by any particular group or organization, Secretary of State Dean Heller announced Thursday. "To date, the Investigations Division has found no evidence of an organized or concerted effort which would influence or impact the results of elections in Clark County," Division Deputy Chief Jerry Hafen reported in a memo to Mr. Heller.

If you want the whole editorial you will have to buy it. http://nl.newsbank.com/nojavascript.html

So I have convictions of democrat operatives being charged and convicted and you have a disgruntled employee whose story didn't pan out.

Care to try again?
 
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