SCotUS upholde photo ID voting laws

See. Look at you talking about using reputable sources when you use blatantly baised sites far more than anyone here.

Right in this thread you linked us to a diary at "Opinion Journal". How do you expect us to take you seriously?

Let me post the Opinion Journal link again http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110011102 so that maybe, just maybe, you will actually click on it and find that it is

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

You are such a fuckin' joke but you make me laugh. :nudge:
 
Your link is to a story from October 2004. The ACORN fraud I posted happened in July 2007.

What point do you think you are making here Jim? :laugh:

You also failed to follow up with the stories which show that there was no attempt at disenfranchisement.

Do you have stories showing there was no attempt at disenfranchisement?


So I have convictions of democrat operatives being charged and convicted and you have a disgruntled employee whose story didn't pan out.

You have a story that led to no illegal voting.

I'm trying to throw you a bone here Jim but it seems your completely resistant to logical reasoning.

Let me repeat myself here: "That is the mode you use over and over here. Find an example and then make sweeping generalizations about some group. Also ignoring any examples of your own group doing the same thing."

Now try and map out your logic and the flaw should become apparent. Say to yourself "A therefore B" and so on until you get to a logical conclusion that "only democrats tinker with elections". You'll find you can't do it.
 
Let me post the Opinion Journal link again http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110011102 so that maybe, just maybe, you will actually click on it and find that it is

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Damn Jim, they've clearly marked it as an opinion piece if you couldn't already get the idea from reading it. Yet you're completely ignorant still.

You act like a retarded 8yr old throwing a tantrum when you get called on something but even after the trolling you do in post after post you complain about ad homs from other members. It's like your in total denial.

I can't really imagine how you expect anyone to take you seriously until you start acting like an adult.
 
eh, both major parties have their field, and maybe already a nominee long before
we even try to have a say.

sonsabitches...both of um.
 
What point do you think you are making here Jim? :laugh:

That you have to dredge back four years to find something that was shown in subsequent stories to be false. I, however, posted a story less than a year old that confirms registration fraud-- and that's the part you don't get registration fraud -- by Democrat operatives.

Do you have stories showing there was no attempt at disenfranchisement?

I gave you the synopsis from a Las Vegas Review-Journal story that shows the story you posted was bogus. If you want to read the entire thing simply go to the LVR-J and pay the fee to download the archived story. Can you show even one arrest or conviction based on your story after four years? Can you show a single modicum of truth to that story? I can show you arrests and indictments from my story after one year.

You have a story that led to no illegal voting.

The thread header was never about illegal voting. It was about registration fraud. But if you really, really need a story on illegal voting I can provide you one so you will sleep better at night. Perhaps you could place it under your pillow.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/abox/article_1330827.php

Thursday, October 26, 2006
Closer look at illegal voting
Holes in law allow some non-citizens to register, but most don't cast ballots, expert says.
By MARTIN WISCKOL
The Orange County Register

...

But it is not a fail-safe assumption. In 1996, some 743 non-citizens were found to have voted in the controversial congressional race in which Loretta Sanchez upset Bob Dornan – the same seat for which Sanchez and Nguyen are now vying. Since then, only a few safeguards have been put in place to prevent non-citizens from registering and voting.

...

Reports of voting by non-citizens point to O.C. in 1997 race and Utah in 2005:


1997:After losing his Orange County congressional seat to Democrat Loretta Sanchez by fewer than 1,000 votes, Republican Bob Dornan said votes cast by immigrants who registered to vote before becoming citizens cost him the election. A yearlong investigation found that 743 such ballots were cast, but this would not have been enough to give Dornan the victory.

2005: During discussion of legislation on drivers' licenses for undocumented workers, Utah Legislative Auditor General John Schaff said more than 58,000 illegal immigrants had Utah driver's licenses, nearly 400 of them used their licenses to register to vote in Utah, and a sampling revealed at least 14 voted in an election. The Utah Lieutenant Governor's Office began investigating in August of that year.

[more]

Now try and map out your logic and the flaw should become apparent. Say to yourself "A therefore B" and so on until you get to a logical conclusion that "only democrats tinker with elections". You'll find you can't do it.

I never said "only democrats". You made that up in your addled mind. The Democrats simply seem to be the only ones getting caught doing it.
 
Damn Jim, they've clearly marked it as an opinion piece if you couldn't already get the idea from reading it. Yet you're completely ignorant still.

You challenged the source as not a reputable source when you posted:

See. Look at you talking about using reputable sources when you use blatantly baised sites far more than anyone here.

Right in this thread you linked us to a diary at "Opinion Journal". How do you expect us to take you seriously?

So you were challeging the reputability of the source. The Wall Street Journal is a reputable source used by newscasters and journalists throughout the nation.

The fact is that you never clicked on the link; you never read the piece; and you never investigated whether the source was reputable or not. You just simply made a bogus charge against me without any real knowledge at all. Nothing new there.
 
That you have to dredge back four years to find something that was shown in subsequent stories to be false. I, however, posted a story less than a year old that confirms registration fraud-- and that's the part you don't get registration fraud -- by Democrat operatives.

Are you working up to a point here Jim? Just go ahead and spit it out. Dredging? No that was a quick Google search. Since your story led to no illegal voting what is your overall attempt at a point? What conclusions are you trying to form?


I gave you the synopsis from a Las Vegas Review-Journal story that shows the story you posted was bogus.

No, you posted a snippet from a dead link labeled as an editorial that doesn't show much at all.

The important thing here Jim is to get you spit out your point to all this. I think everyone here but you knows that many politicians from both sides will try dishonorable methods to affect elections. Where are you going with this?

Your little story from Seattle, what exactly do you think it proves?

The thread header was never about illegal voting. It was about registration fraud.

Actually it was about voting laws. Which require an ID to vote it has little to do with registration. Did you read your own story?

I never said "only democrats". You made that up in your addled mind. The Democrats simply seem to be the only ones getting caught doing it.

Thnks for trolling again Jim, thus proving you refuse to act like an adult. Go ahead and keep whining about some other members ad hom attacks and keep proving you're a hypocrite too.
 
So you were challeging the reputability of the source. The Wall Street Journal is a reputable source used by newscasters and journalists throughout the nation.

Not the opinion pieces Jim. You linked to a clearly labeled opinion piece, which is not a reliable source.
 
Not the opinion pieces Jim. You linked to a clearly labeled opinion piece, which is not a reliable source.
I see. So an opinion piece from a reputable source, used by other media outlets, stating the facts at hand is not a good source?

According to that thinking, no source of any kind, at any time, from anywhere is reliable.

Got it.

I will simply ignore anything you hereinafter state about source reliability as you find no source reliable at all. Save yourself the keystrokes; and I will simply make the assumption that you challenge the reputability and reliability of the source.
 
Are you working up to a point here Jim? Just go ahead and spit it out. Dredging? No that was a quick Google search. Since your story led to no illegal voting what is your overall attempt at a point? What conclusions are you trying to form?

Simply try reading for comprehension. The light will come on at some point.

No, you posted a snippet from a dead link labeled as an editorial that doesn't show much at all.

Then produce the stories which detail the convictions arising from your story. That should be simple enough with a "quick Google search".

The important thing here Jim is to get you spit out your point to all this. I think everyone here but you knows that many politicians from both sides will try dishonorable methods to affect elections. Where are you going with this?

The Democrats are getting caught trying to affect elections. You have yet to produce a single article detailing Republican efforts to do so illegally.

Your little story from Seattle, what exactly do you think it proves?

That the attempts at voter registration fraud are widespread. I have shown you stories from WA, NV, CA, MO, UT, etc and you choose to ignore them.

Actually it was about voting laws. Which require an ID to vote it has little to do with registration. Did you read your own story?[./quote]

If they have to produce ID to vote then organizations like ACORN will not be able to register people fraudulently.

Thnks for trolling again Jim, thus proving you refuse to act like an adult. Go ahead and keep whining about some other members ad hom attacks and keep proving you're a hypocrite too.

You really, really, really need to look up the definition of troll.
 
I see. So an opinion piece from a reputable source, used by other media outlets, stating the facts at hand is not a good source?

According to that thinking, no source of any kind, at any time, from anywhere is reliable.

Got it.

No, you don't get it. Opinion pieces and editorials use the authors opinion. Understand? This should be incredibly obvious.

I will simply ignore anything you hereinafter state about source reliability as you find no source reliable at all. Save yourself the keystrokes; and I will simply make the assumption that you challenge the reputability and reliability of the source.

You're the one who questioned sources in this thread first, before I even used any. Pretty foolish of you to be using opinion pieces during that bitching.
 
No, you don't get it. Opinion pieces and editorials use the authors opinion. Understand? This should be incredibly obvious.

Opinion based on factual evidence and research is valid. Did you even read the piece?

He starts out by listing all of the credits and objections OF OTHERS first. If you were t9o go through the piece sentence by sentence and label each sentence as fact, fiction, or pure opinion of the author, you might -- note I said "might" -- just understand.
 
Let me show you how that's done. If you wish to challenge my methodology then please do.

FROM THE OPINIONJOURNAL ARCHIVES
JOHN FUND ON THE TRAIL

Voter-Fraud Showdown
How can anyone object to asking for ID?
Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:01 a.m. EST

Supporters and critics of Indiana's law requiring voters to show a photo ID at the polls square off in oral arguments before the Supreme Court today. FACT The heated rhetoric surrounding the case lays bare the ideological conflict of visions raging over efforts to improve election integrity. FACT

Supporters say photo ID laws simply extend rules that require everyone to show such ID to travel, enter federal office buildings or pick up a government check. FACT An honor system for voting, in their view, invites potential fraud. FACT That's because many voting rolls are stuffed with the names of dead people and duplicate registrations--as recent scandals in Washington state and Missouri involving the activist group ACORN attest. FACT

Opponents say photo ID laws block poor, minority and elderly voters who lack ID from voting, FACT and all in the name of combating a largely mythical problem of voter fraud. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR

Some key facts will determine the outcome, as the court weighs the potential the law has to combat fraud versus the barriers it erects to voting. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR The liberal Brennan Center at NYU Law School reports that a nationwide telephone survey it conducted found that 11% of the voting-age public lacks government-issued photo ID, including an implausible 25% of African-Americans. FACT

But U.S. District Judge Sarah Evans Barker, who first upheld Indiana's photo ID law in 2006, cited a state study that found 99% of the voting-age population had the necessary photo ID. FACT Judge Barker also noted that Indiana provided a photo ID for free to anyone who could prove their identity, and that critics of the law "have produced not a single piece of evidence of any identifiable registered voter who would be prevented from voting." FACT

Since then, liberal groups have pointed to last November's mayoral election in Indianapolis as giving real-life examples of people prevented from voting. FACT The 34 voters out of 165,000 who didn't have the proper ID were allowed to cast a provisional ballot, and could have had their votes counted by going to a clerk's office within 10 days to show ID or sign an affidavit attesting to their identity. FACT Two chose to do so, but 32 did not. FACT

Indeed, a new study by Jeffrey Milyo of the Truman Institute of Public Policy on Indiana's voter turnout in 2006 did not find evidence that counties with more poor, elderly or minority voters had "any reduction in voter turnout relative to other counties." FACT

Opponents of photo ID laws make a valid point that, while Indiana has a clear problem with absentee-ballot fraud (a mayoral election in East Chicago, Ind., was invalidated by the state's Supreme Court in 2003), there isn't a documented problem of voter impersonation. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR "The state has to demonstrate that this risk of fraud is more than fanciful. And it really isn't," says Ken Falk, legal director for the ACLU of Indiana. FACT

But Indiana officials make the obvious point that, without a photo ID requirement, in-person fraud is "nearly impossible to detect or investigate." FACT A grand jury report prepared by then-Brooklyn District Attorney Elizabeth Holtzman in the 1980s revealed how difficult it is to catch perpetrators. FACT It detailed a massive, 14-year conspiracy in which crews of individuals were recruited to go to polling places and vote in the names of fraudulently registered voters, dead voters, and voters who had moved. FACT "The ease and boldness with which these fraudulent schemes were carried out shows the vulnerability of our entire electoral process to unscrupulous and fraudulent misrepresentation," the report concluded. FACT No indictments were issued thanks to the statute of limitations, and because of grants of immunity in return for testimony. FACT

Even modest in-person voter fraud creates trouble in close races. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR In Washington state's disputed 2004 governor's race, which was won by 129 votes, the election superintendent in Seattle testified in state court that ineligible felons had voted and votes had been cast in the name of the dead. FACT In Milwaukee, Wis., investigators found that, in the state's close 2004 presidential election, more than 200 felons voted illegally and more than 100 people voted twice. FACT In Florida, where the entire 2000 presidential election was decided by 547 votes, almost 65,000 dead people are still listed on the voter rolls FACT--an engraved invitation to fraud. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR A New York Daily News investigation in 2006 found that between 400 and 1,000 voters registered in Florida and New York City had voted twice in at least one recent election. FACT

Laws tightening up absentee-ballot fraud, which is a more serious problem than in-person voting, would be welcome. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR But, curiously, almost all of the groups opposing the photo ID law before the Supreme Court today either oppose specific efforts to combat absentee-ballot fraud or are silent on them. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR

No matter how much voter fraud is caused by voter impersonation, Stuart Taylor of the National Journal reports that "polls show voters increasingly distrust the integrity of the electoral process." OPINION OF ANOTHER AUTHOR He also notes that a 2006 NBC/Wall Street Journal nationwide poll found that, by a 80%-7% margin, those surveyed supported voters showing "a valid photo identification." FACT AS FAR AS THE POLL GOES The idea had overwhelming support among all races and income groups. FACT AS FAR AS THE POLL GOES

That sweeping support helps explain why, in 2005, 18 of 21 members of a bipartisan federal commission headed by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker came out in support of photo ID requirements more stringent than Indiana's. FACT "Voters in nearly 100 democracies use a photo identification card without fear of infringement on their rights," the commission stated. FACT Mr. Carter feels strongly about voter fraud. FACT In his book, "Turning Point," he wrote of his race for Georgia State Senate in 1962, which involved a corrupt local sheriff who had cast votes for the dead. FACT It took a recount and court intervention before Mr. Carter was declared the winner. FACT

Right now, half the states have decided that some kind of ID should be required to vote. FACT It makes sense for the Supreme Court to allow federalism to work its will state-by-state. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR In 2006, the court unanimously overturned a Ninth Circuit ruling that had blocked an Arizona voter ID law. FACT In doing so, the court noted that anyone without an ID is by federal law always allowed to cast a provisional ballot that can be verified later. FACT The court also noted that fraud "drives honest citizens out of the democratic process and breeds distrust of our government. Voters who fear their legitimate votes will be outweighed by fraudulent ones will feel disenfranchised." FACT

So the high court itself has already defined the nub of the case it is hearing today. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR On one side are those who claim photo IDs will block some voters from casting ballots, FACT but offer scant evidence. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR UNTIL PROVEN FACTUALLY CORRECT On the other side are those who believe photo ID laws can act as a deterrent to irregularities the public increasingly views as undermining election integrity. FACT Given the obvious political nature of the argument, here's hoping a clear Supreme Court majority reprises its 2006 finding and holds that such questions are best resolved by the elected branches of government and not by unaccountable courts. OPINION OF THE AUTHOR
 
jim i don't think you understand what "methodology" means based on your usage.

Yeah, but I figured it would do in his case. The meaning is slowly changing to include methods, techniques, and procedures although the dictionaries haven't yet caught up with common usage outside of what is defined.

Usage Problem Means, technique, or procedure; method.

meth'od·o·log'i·cal adj., meth'od·o·log'i·cal·ly adv.

Usage Note: Methodology can properly refer to the theoretical analysis of the methods appropriate to a field of study or to the body of methods and principles particular to a branch of knowledge. In this sense, one may speak of objections to the methodology of a geographic survey (that is, objections dealing with the appropriateness of the methods used) or of the methodology of modern cognitive psychology (that is, the principles and practices that underlie research in the field). In recent years, however, methodology has been increasingly used as a pretentious substitute for method in scientific and technical contexts, as in The oil company has not yet decided on a methodology for restoring the beaches. People may have taken to this practice by influence of the adjective methodological to mean "pertaining to methods." Methodological may have acquired this meaning because people had already been using the more ordinary adjective methodical to mean "orderly, systematic." But the misuse of methodology obscures an important conceptual distinction between the tools of scientific investigation (properly methods) and the principles that determine how such tools are deployed and interpreted.

Remember whan bad, tight, gay, and heavy didn't mean what they do today; or are you that young? Things change and the laws of lexicology and etymology change with the times. Take "homophobia" as an example.

If one researches the derivation of the word "homosexual" they find that the prefix "homo" is from the Latin meaning "same". It is not from the Greek meaning "man". So homosexual means esentially "same sex".

Then some guy comes up with the cutsie term "homophobia" to mean the fear of homosexuals. The etymological derivation, however, would instead mean the fear of anything that was the same. If one were truly homophobic, they couldn't put on a pair of socks unless they were of two different colors or patterns.

The dictionaries, being the PC types they are, decided to include homophobia as a real word ignoring the derivations; and so we have the word in every dictionary in all of its etymologically incorrect glory.

So it will not take long before "methodology" suffers the same fate. Just roll with it.
 
language, silly language. right. we should just let everything slide, no?

hell we'll be speaking spanish soon enough anyway. i'm sure yer fine with letting that one slide too, eh?

when we're all like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dupu6Y1DIJ4 ...

i guess using language precisely won't make a difference anyway.
 
Opinion based on factual evidence and research is valid. Did you even read the piece?

Yes Jim, I read the piece. The author is expressing an opinion which is why it's labeled an opinion piece.

In the same thread you bitched about sources you posted an opinion piece as evidence. You got called on it, now suck it up.
 
Yes Jim, I read the piece. The author is expressing an opinion which is why it's labeled an opinion piece.

In the same thread you bitched about sources you posted an opinion piece as evidence. You got called on it, now suck it up.

So the facts, polls, documents, court decisions, and legal findings stated within the piece are simply "opinion" if they are contained within an opinion piece? Riiiiiiiight. Got it. :moon:

Then that means that everything that anyone and everyone links to on this board is non-factual, irrelevant, disreputable, and unreliable because we are all simply giving our opinion on current events. So regardless of the factual nature of our links or quotes, they are to be discounted en toto because they are contained within our opinion post.

Like I said. You are such a fuckin' joke; but you still make me laugh.
 
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