Should torture be legalized?
- Thread starter outside looking in
- Start date
ris
New Member
i would be concerned when the justice we apply becomes nothing more than retributionary acts violence. aunty's view of a savage society starts becoming a further reality.
there are many civilisations past and present that employ acts of retributionary violence such as that under their justice systems, i'm not sure it necessarily results in a greatly reduced crime rate.
there are many civilisations past and present that employ acts of retributionary violence such as that under their justice systems, i'm not sure it necessarily results in a greatly reduced crime rate.
outside looking in
<b>Registered Member</b>
ris said:
Erm, perhaps you didn't read my posts in this thread closely enough. I'm asking about torture as a means of gathering vital information, which can certainly be used for the protection of citizens. You seem to be addressing torture as punishment, which is another subject entirely to me (though others in this thread are obviously talking about torture as punishment as well).
outside looking in
<b>Registered Member</b>
Aunty Em said:
Easy to take cheap shots at someone, isn't it.
Why don't you respond to the questions about the hypothetical kidnapping case? Who is more barbaric... the person who respects the "rights" of the kidnapper to not be tortured, or the person who respects the "rights" of the child to live?
No, it's not an easy question to answer, but it is a valid one - and I don't think the recognition that extrordinary circumstances sometimes exist is an indication of a thinly veiled barbarism.
ris
New Member
outside looking in said:
i posted a response to the original question further up:
either we stand the moral high ground and act in the proper manner we expect of others or we are bound to fail. a hypothetical question such as that must be weighed up with the reality of such situations arising and the possibility for abuse of such law if brought into reality. it in effect is its own nonsense - using hypothetical situations arguments for police states and curfews can make perfect sense, when in reality the situations are extremely implausible.
the part you quoted was directly a response to those who had referred to it as punishment, although i did refer to that previously too.
chcr
Too cute for words
As far as I can tell, being civilized means standing on the moral high ground while still doing many of those "barbaric" things in the background, out of sight. Oh, and if you get caught, lie or blame it on someone else.
Just a personal observation of some things that I no longer have the energy to try to change.
Edit: duh, oops!
Just a personal observation of some things that I no longer have the energy to try to change.
Edit: duh, oops!
AlladinSane
Well-Known Member
OMG, I've been toruring myself for the last 15 years, I should be confined...outside looking in said:
Aunty Em
Well-Known Member
If you act no better than the person who commits the crime what gives you the moral right to judge him? The kidnap is irrelevant, either you believe in the principle of universal human rights, one of which is the right not to be tortured, or you don't. What would happen if that person had been wrongly arrested? You would be torturing an innocent man.outside looking in said:Easy to take cheap shots at someone, isn't it.
Why don't you respond to the questions about the hypothetical kidnapping case? Who is more barbaric... the person who respects the "rights" of the kidnapper to not be tortured, or the person who respects the "rights" of the child to live?
No, it's not an easy question to answer, but it is a valid one - and I don't think the recognition that extrordinary circumstances sometimes exist is an indication of a thinly veiled barbarism.
How would you feel if you were arrested for something you had no part in and were tortured for information... many false confessions are made simply to end the torture.
Would you be happy to be held the the same high esteem as the chinese government, north korea, etc on human rights abuses?
Aunty Em
Well-Known Member
chcr said:As far as I can tell, being civilized means standing on the moral high ground while still doing many of those "barbaric" things in the background, out of site. Oh, and if you get caught, lie or blame it on someone else.
Just a personal observation of some things that I no longer have the energy to try to change.
A civilised society is what some of us aspire to, unfortunately human nature often gets in the way.
Aunty Em
Well-Known Member
It doesn't say anything about "except if you've commited a particular crime". Either you apply it universally or the next time you're pulled for speeding and I (the cop) need to clear up a few burglaries, etc. I can take you in a room somewhere and kick shit out of you until you confess to having committed them.
As a member of the UN The US Government is pledged to uphold these rights and has been for the last 50 years.
http://www.un.org/rights/50/decla.htm
Aunty Em
Well-Known Member
This is what I think aboout torture...
My gut instinct is as barbaric as the next persons in the right circumstances, but I will not allow my baser instincts to rule me. I'm an intelligent thinking human being and I don't support Liberty International for nothing. I will never agree to torture in any circumstances.
My gut instinct is as barbaric as the next persons in the right circumstances, but I will not allow my baser instincts to rule me. I'm an intelligent thinking human being and I don't support Liberty International for nothing. I will never agree to torture in any circumstances.
