So. How about that Alan Grayson fellow?

[ResearchMonkey]

You do know that your healthcare is not, currentlly, limited, don't you? Once it's state run, you'll be at the mercy of the IRS.

The IRS is just the beginning. History makes clear that this is just the foot in the door.

Everything about you will become the gov't business. You will lose the ability to make many of your own choices, even then you're limited to the options they allow.

 

[Gonz]

I hear they're studying the health effects of gun ownership

 

[spike]

How is it limited? I've never had a problem seeign a doctor (well, there was this time constraint thing)

Really? You're lucky. A lot of American's have to get approval to see specialists.

 

[spike]

The IRS is just the beginning. History makes clear that this is just the foot in the door.

Everything about you will become the gov't business. You will lose the ability to make many of your own choices, even then you're limited to the options they allow.

Wishful thinking.

 

[Gonz]

Pay the specialist cash or follow the agreed-to conditions set forth by your insurer.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Wishful to you maybe, I fear that loss of freedom.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Pay the specialist cash or follow the agreed-to conditions set forth by your insurer.

How novel of an idea, self responsibility.

Id rather do 100%self pay then have the government take my money and freedoms.

See Rahm or the let you die fella.

 

[spike]

Wishful to you maybe, I fear that loss of freedom.

Yeah, I know. A lot of what you post is irrational fear mongering instead facts.

 

[spike]

How novel of an idea, self responsibility.

Id rather do 100%self pay then have the government take my money and freedoms.

I'd rather have a great healthcare system that everybody has access to like the 30+ other countries that do better than us.

 

[jimpeel]

Yep, seems pretty clear and obvious.

Any thinking person would be able to see the connection between lack of healthcare and life expectancy without even needing a study.

So you are willing to ignore the words of the authors of the study that their study was seriously flawed?

AGAIN:

"Our study has several limitations," the authors concede. The survey data they used "assessed health insurance at a single point in time and did not validate self-reported insurance status. We were unable to measure the effect of gaining or losing coverage after the interview." Himmelstein et al. simply assumed that point-in-time uninsurance translates into perpetual uninsurance -- and that any health calamities that result can and must be blamed on being uninsured.

Another caveat you won't see on Grayson's memorial to the dubious dead: The single-payer advocate-authors also conceded in their study limitations section that "earlier population-based surveys that did validate insurance status found that between 7 percent and 11 percent of those initially recorded as being uninsured were misclassified. If present, such misclassification might dilute the true effect of uninsurance in our sample."

So there was no way to know if those who were insured at the time of the interviews for the study later lost their insurance or if those who were uninsured at the at the time of the interviews for the study later gained insurance. In other words, the authors did not know what the status of those who died was at the time of their deaths or the time leading up to their deaths. They simply ass-u-me(d) that everyone who did not have insurance simply maintained that status.

Assumptions during a supposedly scientific study are the first indication that the results of the study are bogus as the variables are so vast that they make the study and the authors thereof unreliable, incredible, and incompetent.

The only reason you are willing to ignore these facts is the results support your contentions. You would not be so cavalier for any study that had the opposite effect; and you would be authoring vociferous posts pointing out the very limitations I have cited.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

So you are willing to ignore the words of the authors of the study that their study was seriously flawed?

And this caught you off guard?

 

[spike]

Areyou thinking not having access to healthcare helps people live longer?

Adjusting for age and gender, the researchers found that risk of mortality among the uninsured was 40% than that among the insured. After additional adjustment for race/ethnicity, income, education, self- and physician-rated health status, body mass index, leisure exercise, smoking, and regular alcohol use, the uninsured were more likely to die than the insured.

Consequently, the researchers concluded that uninsurance is associated with mortality. Despite changes in medical treatments and the demography of the uninsured since a similar study in the mid-1980s, these results seem consistent with the results of a study for the prior time period, the researchers noted. The researchers also observed that the Institute of Medicine identifies three factors that influence health outcomes: not getting care when needed, not having a regular source of care, and not getting continuity of coverage.

What kind of insurance do you have Jim? How much does that Interferon cost?

 

[Gonz]

Having, or not having, insurance, does not limit, or help, ones access to healthcare.

 

[spike]

Bullshit, if you're poor and don't have insurance how are you going to get dialysis?

 

[Gonz]

Pay for it.

 

[spike]

If you're poor like I said you'd be able to afford it. Maybe because you're sick and can't work.

 

[spike]

Hey Jim, did you know Wal Mart takes out life insurance on many of their employees and makes themselves the beneficiary? Do you think they have a policy on you?

It's like going to the horse track, except they bet on who's gonna die. If you're young it pays more. Kinda like betting on a horse with long odds.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Dialysis will qualify you for medicare. Disability.

 

[Gonz]

Hey Jim, did you know Wal Mart takes out life insurance on many of their employees and makes themselves the beneficiary? Do you think they have a policy on you?

Is there a problem with that?

 

[ResearchMonkey]

If you're poor like I said you'd be able to afford it. Maybe because you're sick and can't work.

If your too sick to work, you get disability, you get medicare.

Thats how it works.