Stop...*giggle*...what?

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
*giggle*...altogether?

The task of cutting greenhouse gas emissions enough to avert a dangerous rise in global temperatures may be far more difficult than previous research suggested, say scientists who have just published studies indicating that it would require the world to cease carbon emissions altogether within a matter of decades.

I know this was touched upon in another thread, but I just had to give it it's own...:rofl4:
 
You guys stay the course.

head_in_sand.jpg
 
The solution is really quite simple.

Wait.


The sun will do it's thing with or without Al Bores help. It'll also do it with or without mankind placing itself in the economic chaos that would follow our stopping CO2 emissions. (Wait, does that mean we can't exhale?)
 
The solution is really quite simple.

Wait.


The sun will do it's thing with or without Al Bores help. It'll also do it with or without mankind placing itself in the economic chaos that would follow our stopping CO2 emissions. (Wait, does that mean we can't exhale?)

Yep...:lol2:
 
It amazes me that so may times, the very people who refuse to believe they were created by a God, also believe that humanity can destroy the planet by driving a certain car. Arrogance to the nth degree if you ask me, which you didn't, but now you don't have to...
 
No, we could neer affect the environment. Let's just slash and burn those hills you hike in. Don't matter at all. God will fix it.

air-pollution-systems.jpg


Ignorance to the nth degree.
 
spike...where's my smoke from that stack? I can't seem to find it?

This is right up there with the AP story about prescription drugs in the water. Look far enough into the story & you see where it says PARTS PER TRILLION.
 
No, we could neer affect the environment. Let's just slash and burn those hills you hike in. Don't matter at all. God will fix it.

air-pollution-systems.jpg


Ignorance to the nth degree.

Oh my God! Look at all of the CO2 that is being spewed!

Oh, wait, CO2 is invisible, colorless, and odorless.

<Emily Litella> Nevermind <Emily Litella>
 
The solution is really quite simple.

Wait.


The sun will do it's thing with or without Al Bores help. It'll also do it with or without mankind placing itself in the economic chaos that would follow our stopping CO2 emissions. (Wait, does that mean we can't exhale?)

Yep.

http://www.junkscience.com/ByTheJunkman/20080306.html

Breath is toxic waste?

By Steven Milloy
Thursday, March 6, 2008

The federal government may soon declare your very breath to be toxic regardless of its minty freshness.

Consistent with last spring’s Supreme Court ruling that the Environmental Protection Agency may regulate carbon dioxide (CO2) as a hazardous air pollutant, the agency is evaluating how CO2 could be regulated as a hazardous substance under its notorious Superfund program, according to Carbon Control News (Mar. 4).

So at the risk of exhaling and being held retroactively liable (more on that later), let’s take a deep breath and consider the potential impact of likening CO2 to the substances of concern at Love Canal, Times Beach and the thousands of other former and current Superfund waste sites and dumps across the nation.

The Superfund law was enacted by a lame-duck Democrat Congress and signed into law by a lame-duck President Carter in December 1980. The impetus for the law was the fiasco at Love Canal, NY, which was caused by local officials who recklessly built a school on top of a known chemical dump.

Municipal contractors punctured the dump’s clay lining multiple times. Chemical wastes seeped into the ground, contaminated the groundwater, and generally made a gooey mess of the area. The situation went from bad to full panic when, in 1978, the president of the local homeowners association claimed the situation was sickening local children.

Though no health effects were ever linked with leaking waste, Love Canal became synonymous with “disaster,” prompting the Superfund law, a national program to identify and clean-up hazardous wastes sites across the country.

Hundreds of locations across the country were designated as “hazardous waste sites” -- not because anyone’s health or the environment was necessarily at risk, but so that every state could share in the federal dollars porked-out for clean-ups. Political science, rather than conventional science, often steered the Superfund program.

Superfund itself soon became a disaster, in large part because of its imposition of “retroactive liability” -- the punishment of past, but at the time, entirely legal conduct.

If a site was deemed by the EPA to pose a risk to human health -- say, by divining as little as a 0.01 percent increase in the risk of cancer to a hypothetical person who, however implausibly, might one day subsist on a site’s most contaminated soil and groundwater -- then the owners and users of the site could be held liable for the typically exorbitant, EPA-determined clean-up costs, regardless of whether the wastes were disposed of properly according to the law at the time of disposal.

By the mid-1990s, retroactive liability fueled an explosion of costly and time-consuming Superfund litigation. Only the lawyers cleaned up. Little progress was made on actual site remediation.

Despite that heritage, the EPA is apparently now figuring out how to throw CO2 (and its emitters) under the Superfund train.

This most likely will be a problem for coal-fired power plants -- generators of about half of America’s electricity -- and other large industrial facilities (to the extent that any still exist in the U.S.) that may be forced by future greenhouse gas regulation to capture and sequester emissions. Carbon capture and storage advocates imagine that CO2 emissions will be transported from facilities by pipeline to underground geological formations where they hope the gas will be permanently stored.

But as recently reported in this column, a report from the Congressional Research Service spotlighted the many problems with underground CO2 sequestration, including leaking which could harm groundwater by acidifying it. Groundwater clean-up can be extremely difficult and was often a key driver of expensive Superfund cleanups.

Federal regulation of CO2 as a “hazardous substance,” whether under Superfund or some other law, may bring a host of other problems along with it. Once a substance is labeled or regulated by one federal program, it can automatically or inadvertently become eligible for additional regulation under other government programs without further affirmative government action.

As an example, the 1986 explosion at the Union Carbide plant in Bhopal, India prompted Congress to pass, and President Reagan to sign, the Emergency Planning and Community-Right-to-Know Act, establishing a program known as the Toxic Release Inventory (TRI).

Under the TRI, makers, transporters and users of certain hazardous chemicals are responsible for reporting what chemicals they store at their facilities so that local communities may be prepared in the event of disaster. The list of chemicals initially subject to TRI reporting was literally just thrown together from other lists of industrial chemicals already regulated in some way shape or form. All of the listed chemicals were wrongly assumed to be Bhopal-dangerous.

Phosphoric acid for example, which is used in colas and baked goods, was caught in the TRI snare and added to the list of “toxic” chemicals subject to reporting. Even though phosphoric acid is classified as “generally recognized as safe” by the Food and Drug Administration and there was no evidence that phosphoric acid had ever harmed anyone or the environment, it took a decade and a court order for phosphoric acid users to compel an ever-reluctant EPA to delist the substance from the TRI.

You may then understand, perhaps, how the federal government’s designation of CO2 as a “hazardous substance” could easily turn into an unfortunate unintended consequence, say, for the soft drink industry, which puts CO2 in its products.

It’s enough to make you wonder why a company like PepsiCo belongs to the U.S. Climate Action Partnership, an industry/environmental activist coalition leading the charge on Capitol Hill to have CO2 branded as an environmental hazard.

Just don’t hold your breath to see how all this turns out -- you just might become a Superfund site yourself.

Steven Milloy publishes JunkScience.com and DemandDebate.com. He is a junk science expert, and advocate of free enterprise and an adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
 
Warming releases CO2 from the largest CO2 sink on Earth -- the oceans. If the sun heats up the planet, the CO2 will rise as the oceans release it.

HOWEVER ...

More and more climate scientists are predicting that we are entering a solar minimum.

http://solarscience.auditblogs.com/

Archibald predicts that the next solar cycle, Cycle 24, will produce a weak magnetic field which means that more cosmic rays will enter the atmosphere to create clouds and thus cool the earth. Actually, a 2007 NASA scientific panel was evenly split on the strong/weak prediction for Cycle 24. However, manyresearchers expect that Cycle 25 may be one the weakest in centuries. Archibald ended by boldly predicting that the world will see average temperatures drop by -2.2 degrees centigrade in the coming decade. That’s more than three times the amount of warming the world has experienced over the last century. He also predicted as a consequence that the growing seasons in the United States would be shortened by a total of four weeks, dramatically reducing food production.

For millennia, thermonuclear forces inside the star have followed a regular rhythm, causing its magnetic field to peak and ebb, on average, every 11 years. Space weathermen are watching for telltale increases in sunspots, which would signal the start of a new cycle, predicted to have started last March and expected to peak in 2012. “When the sun’s active, it’s a little bit brighter,” explains Ken Tapping, a solar researcher and project director for Canada’s National Research Council.

So far, Tapping reports no change in the magnetic field strength, as measured by radio telescopes. On the more positive side, last month NASA reported a small, earth-sized sunspot with a magnetic field pointing in the opposite direction from those in the previous cycle; qualities that designate the spot as a signal of a new upturn in activity. At the solar maximum, scientists expect to see between 75 and 150 such sunspots per day.

Tapping oversees the operation of a 60-year-old radio telescope that he calls a “stethoscope for the sun.” Recent magnetic field readings are as low as he’s ever seen, he says, and he’s worked with the instrument for more than 25 years. If the sun remains this quiet for another a year or two, it may indicate the star has entered a downturn that, if history is any precedent, could trigger a planetary cold spell that could bring massive snowfall and severe weather to the Northern Hemisphere.

The last such solar funk corresponded with a period of bitter cold that began around 1650 and lasted, with intermittent spikes of warming, until 1715. While there were competing causes for the climatic shift—including the Black Death’s depopulation of tree-cutting Europeans and, more substantially, increased volcanic activity spewing ash into the atmosphere—the sun’s lethargy likely had something to do with it.

The fact is that everyone is so busy trying to thwart global warming, which would increase the growing seasons and thus food production; and yet no one is addressing global cooling which would lead to the starvation deaths of at least a billion humans. That would not, of course, be an unwelcomed event to most GW theorists.

Sunspot activity has been down and Solar Cycle 24 (SC24), predicted to start a year ago MAY, and that is a big MAY only now be starting. Sunspots have an 11 year cycle and we are now between those cycles. Many solar scientists are at odds about whether SC24 has, or has not, now begun.

If sunspot activity, as it is related to climate change, interests you CLICK HERE.

Sunspots can have a very direct bearing on physical manifestations on Earth such as volcanic activity.

http://www.unisci.com/stories/20022/0613022.htm

Of Sunspots, Volcanic Eruptions And Climate Change

University at Buffalo scientists working with ice cores have solved a mystery surrounding sunspots and their effect on climate that has puzzled scientists since they began studying the phenomenon.

The research, published in a paper in the May 15 issue of Geophysical Research Letters, provides striking evidence that sunspots -- blemishes on the sun's surface indicating strong solar activity -- do influence global climate change, but that explosive volcanic eruptions on Earth can completely reverse those influences.

It is the first time that volcanic eruptions have been identified as the atmospheric event responsible for the sudden and baffling reversals that scientists have seen in correlations between sunspots and climate.

[more]

Of course, all of these scientists, climatologists, their studies, the ice core records, and tree ring data could simply be ignorant to the nth degree.
 
peel quoting somebody else said:
No, we could neer affect the environment. Let's just slash and burn those hills you hike in. Don't matter at all. God will fix it.

Leave it up to the ignorant to not know the difference between a Ford Explorer and a textile mill or whatever that is. Now git yer apples out from around my oranges please.
 
Leave it up to the ignorant to not know the difference between a Ford Explorer and a textile mill or whatever that is. Now git yer apples out from around my oranges please.

The truly ignorant don't even realize that all the cars pollute more than the textile mills.

Maybe God will fix your ignorance too. :laugh:
 
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