Terrorists and Supermax prisons

Wonder what the disenfranchised population of the supermax prisons are and how much time are these Gitmo detainees going to be allowed mingling with the general population.
Why import terrorists when we can grow them right here?
 
Gonz said:
Let's see.

They are not Americans.

They are not civil criminals.

They are not eligible fro Constitutional rights until they hit US soil.

They are enemy combatants who were being tried, as they need be, under a militarty tribunal.

THEY ARE NOT AMERICANS.
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They are on US Soil as far as the law goes, Gonz. Whether they are Americans is irrelevant. The same as if a Parisian rapes a child in New York is subject to US laws AND US rights while on US soil...the same as soldiers on US bases in Iraq are subject to US laws and US rights while on the base or while acting on behalf of your GVT. Sorry...

As far as the law goes, Gitmo may as well be in Downtown Dayton, Ohio. The law still applies the same way.

Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. is a patch of land on the island that is today’s nation of Cuba. It was leased by the US from Spain in the wake of the Spanish-American war, more than 100 years ago. Cuba does not recognize US autonomy there. In other words, Guantanamo Bay constitutes a kind of “taking by force” from Cuba. Cuba claims the soil upon which the base stands, but it has been unwilling to enter a war with the US to take it back. Guantanamo Bay is, therefore, territory captured by force or by threat of force from Cuba. And as captured US territory, it is subject to US law, certainly it is subject to US Constitutional protections.

The administration has tried to argue that it is ‘foreign soil.’ But foreign soil is only soil that one acknowledges as belonging to a legitimate and existential governing foreign power. The US denies that the Guantanamo Bay belongs to the existing government of Cuba or to any other existing foreign government. And by denying this, it denies its status as ‘foreign soil.’ So by simply occupying it in defiance of local government, the US asserts its territorial rights to it and makes it de facto US territory.

To argue otherwise is nonsense. It cannot be ‘foreign soil’ for judicial purposes, but ‘US soi’l for the convenience of US military forces as the administration evidently argued with success in this case.

How can one argue simultaneously that the soil is Cuban soil and that Cuba has no right to administer it? It is nonsense. If it were any other spot in the world where sovereign nations grant US authority to administer under US law, US law must hold as condition of the grant. In fact, if such a body of land were administered outside the bounds of the US Constitution and of US law, it would constitute a malformed entity, one outside the bounds of law. But even the administration does not want Guantanamo Bay to lie outside the bounds of the US law. It wants it to be administered as US territory. But it wants to do so with special provisions that defy the Constitution.

By denying Cuban authority that would have the US vacate the Naval Base, the US is fundamentally making and defending a territorial claim. A guest who has outstayed his welcome ceases to be a guest once he has been invited to leave. He may be thown out by force because his stay constitutes an illegal claim of territory. So it is with Guantanamo Bay. Except in this case there is no cop bigger and more powerful than the unwelcome guest.

The logic of the ruling defies both of these two important arguments. While the minority opinion is faithful to the idea that underlies the Constitution, the idea that all people are equal before the law, the majority opinion ignores this subtle point. There is not one body of law for one group and another body of law for another: there cannot be if one cherishes rule of law. The ruling also fails to acknowledge that the territorial status of Guantanamo Bay Naval Base cannot be simultaneously two things. While it is occupied by the US Navy against the will of Cuba, it is taken US territory, not Cuban soil. It is a de facto US enclave in Cuba. Were it otherwise, there would be no Naval Base.
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Dave said:
Wonder what the disenfranchised population of the supermax prisons are and how much time are these Gitmo detainees going to be allowed mingling with the general population.
Why import terrorists when we can grow them right here?
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Supermax = solitary confinement and sensory deprivation 23 hours a day, no contact w/other inmates, no windows, no privacy.
 
Dave said:
Wonder what the disenfranchised population of the supermax prisons are and how much time are these Gitmo detainees going to be allowed mingling with the general population.
Why import terrorists when we can grow them right here?
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We have grown terrorists right here. Recent examples: Timothy McVeigh; Terry Nichols. Neither were Muslim.

These prisoners will never been with the general population. They would get solitary for life. The daily life of a solitary prisoner is explained below.
 
FBI: Radical Islamist Group Ruled by Inmate in "Supermax" Jail

From the FBI press release on last night's Dearborn, MI raid-turned-shootout that left radical Imam Luqman Ameen Abdullah, aka Christopher Thomas, dead:

Abdullah was the leader of part of a group that calls themselves Ummah ("the brotherhood"), a group of mostly African-American converts to Islam, which seeks to establish a separate Sharia-law governed state within the United States. The Ummah is ruled by Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin, formerly known as H. Rapp Brown, who is serving a state sentence in USP Florence, CO, ADMAX, for the murder of two police officers in Georgia.

Interesting to note the active tense used in the release. The use of the phrase "is ruled" should raise an eyebrow or two for those following the debate over where to relocate the terrorists currently housed at Gitmo. Two of the most mentioned locations being considered by the Obama administration are the federal prison in Standish, Michigan and the federal Administrative Maximum (aka "Supermax") prison in Florence, Colorado. One of the left's core arguments in the debate rests on the belief that the security provided by such a facility would render Gitmo's terrorists totally unable to organize and convert fellow prisoners eager to learn from the jihad-masters.

In this case, not only did a domestic Islamic terrorist organization arise from within the walls of our prison system, but the "Supermax" facility currently serves as the headquarters for this radical group.

It appears FBI Director Robert Mueller's "relevant concerns" about bringing Gitmo's terrorists to the United States are not so far-fetched after all.

So far as we know, no terror cells are currently being run from inside Guantanamo.
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Not to worry. These guys won't be in prison for very long, they'll soon be productive U.S. Citizens with rock-star status.

Judge Tosses Out Most Evidence on Gitmo Detainee
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
 Published: January 8, 2010


WASHINGTON (AP) -- A federal judge has tossed out most of the government's evidence against a tarrorism detainee on grounds his confessions were coerced, allegedly by U.S. forces, before he became a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay.

NYTimes
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:hippy:
 
Gonz said:
DEAD, by the laws of our land.




Life, without parole.

When was the last American made suicide bomber?
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Americans are too smart to strap on a bomb. They'll drive it in a van under the building and set it off from a safe distance. ;)
 
Dave said:
Congrats on contradicting yourself.
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Not quite, I just pointed out the conditions throughout Supermax prisions in the US.

Face-to-face, person-to-person contact in the prison yard or dining area or rec area isn't necessary to rule a radical group of sharia-law converts.

TAMMS, Ill. — Every once in a while, Joseph Dole stands in a back corner of the walled-in outdoor recreation area at Tamms Correctional Center straining to catch a ray of sunlight.

"About 4 square feet gets sun," said Dole, a rail-thin convicted murderer who is serving a life sentence. "You can stand there. ... You feel refreshed. But you can only get it if they call yard between 11 and 1."

Another murderer, Adolfo Rosario, said he hasn't shaken anyone's hand since he was transferred to Tamms 11 years ago. "There is no contact at all, none," he said.

Tyrone Dorn, serving time for carjacking, hasn't had a visitor or made a phone call in five years at Tamms. "The hardest part is the isolation," he said. "It's like being buried alive.

Conditions are harsh—and meant to be. For at least 23 hours a day, prisoners sit in solitary confinement in 7-by-12-foot cells. There is no mess hall—meals are shoved through a chuckhole in cell doors. Contact with the outside world is sharply restricted. For a rare visit from relatives or friends, inmates are strip-searched, chained to a concrete stool and separated from visitors by a thick glass wall. There are no jobs and limited educational opportunities.

.....a glimpse at life for its 245 inmates. Among the snapshot views from the daylong visit:

•Inmates in a psychiatric unit being rewarded for good behavior by watching TV from locked cages about the size of phone booths.

•Hallways barren of foot traffic and eerily quiet except for the occasional clang of metal doors shutting.

•Desperate cries for help shouted by inmates on realizing a reporter was visiting.

•Inmates who spoke of their ingenuity at coping with the isolation by using "fishing lines" fashioned from string in blankets to pass notes to other inmates and developing a sign language to communicate.
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More like Americans lack the courage of their convictions to actually sacrifice themselves like that.

Hell...we can't even get riled up enough to toss out corrupt elected officials. Might interrupt American Idol.
 
valkyrie said:
Americans are too smart to strap on a bomb. They'll drive it in a van under the building and set it off from a safe distance. ;)
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Then they are not our current problem.

Let's go after the radical Muslims.
 
Dave said:
More like Americans lack the courage of their convictions to actually sacrifice themselves like that.
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Armyguyinsnow-vi.jpg


I don't think it's a lack of courage or conviction.
 
Terrorists in DC

If they really wanna protect our freedoms
they should be launching an assault
on the halls of Congress and the White house
 
hmm, I need some building materials.
I wonder if they'd let me strip out the receptacles, breaker boxes, and some bricks, and stuff...
to recycle.:swing:
 
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