The difference

SnP said:
flavio said:
You're never going to wrap your mind around most concepts when you shut your brain down as soon as something doesn't fit your preconceived ideas
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Well then, when things go against YOUR preconceived notions do you keep an open mind or does your brain shut down. Be careful, I have evidence.
 
Gonz said:
Well then, when things go against YOUR preconceived notions do you keep an open mind or does your brain shut down. Be careful, I have evidence.
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*looks back a couple of posts*... :D
 
Gonz said:
Well then, when things go against YOUR preconceived notions do you keep an open mind or does your brain shut down. Be careful, I have evidence.
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I try pretty hard but I'm don't expect that anybody can do it completely.

For example when you posted about the book that claimed Micheal Moore had stock in Halliburton I tried to find more information. Didn't find anything one way or the other, just other forums talking about it. I'm not going to assume it's not true just because I don't like the idea and your info came from a right wing site. I just file it under "possible" or "maybe" for now.
 
flavio said:
Maybe, or it could be two wrongs don't make a right.
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Pretend for a minute that I'm not even talking about who is right and who is wrong. Those being subjective judgments, it really doesn't matter who is right or wrong.

What I'm getting at is this: Person A espouses certain ideas. That person then behaves in a manner that runs diametrically opposed to those ideas, and relies on the same argument to cover their behavior as they did for the contrary ideas they earlier espouse.

If a person, any person, requests/demands that I respect their point of view/rights/whatever, then goes out and trounces mine, I call them a hypocrite and rightly so I think.

To demand tolerence of their religion/culture, claiming that any outsiders are closed minded, and then to follow that statement with the behavior they have displayed for the reasons it was displayed, is exponentially hypocritical and negates their own argument.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
If a person, any person, requests/demands that I respect their point of view/rights/whatever, then goes out and trounces mine, I call them a hypocrite and rightly so I think.
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You have a point. Hopefully you'll see mine if you take it back a step further.

A person, requests/demands that I respect their point of view/rights and then trounces mine. :spank:
They are wrong...I am right.

Why were they demanding I respect their point of view to start with? Maybe because I wasn't...while I expected them to respect mine? *poke*
I was wrong...they were right.

What should I do after they trounce mine? ...I'll trounce theirs worse.:bash:
They were wrong...now I'm wrong.

What will they do? ...Well of course they'll trounce mine even worse.:battle:


Now they're wrong again.

You see where this is going... :gun4: :tank:
 
flavio said:
You have a point. Hopefully you'll see mine if you take it back a step further.

A person, requests/demands that I respect their point of view/rights and then trounces mine. :spank:
They are wrong...I am right.

Why were they demanding I respect their point of view to start with? Maybe because I wasn't...while I expected them to respect theirs? *poke*
I was wrong...they were right.

What should I do after they trounce mine? ...I'll trounce theirs worse.:bash:
They were wrong...now I'm wrong.

What will they do? ...Well of course they'll trounce mine even worse.:battle:


Now their wrong again.

You see where this is going... :gun4: :tank:
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Again, take right and wrong out of it. Naturally, they think they are as right as I think I am. That's a given and as such cancels one another out.

As I understand things, representatives of the Muslim faith/culture/what have you (for brevity sake, I'll say faith) justify certain actions as a part of their faith. That's groovy with me. I have zero problem with that.

Next, they move to the line of argument that these actions should be accepted BECAUSE it is a part of their faith. And then they go on to draw the parallel to other faiths and the treatment these other faiths receive in the court of public opinion and what have you. OK, that's fair game too. Again, zero problem for me.

Then, an incident occurs. A person who does not claim to be a part of that faith draws a cartoon. Ink on paper; no more. That person has acted 100% within their rights by drawing this cartoon.

I challenge any person anywhere to claim that other faiths have not had this happen to them/their deity. Thus, no specific distinction has been made. Yes, the cartoon in question is specifically about Allah, just as so many hundreds of thousands have depicted Jesus, Buddah, ad nauseum. I think we can agree that what was drawn in these cartoons were no more defamatory than thousands of others relating to varied other faiths.

But now, BECAUSE it was Allah, they feel they have the right to in effect declare world war and take hostages and riot and make threats. To me, that's where the line in logic is stepped over. If you want equality, then stop demanding special consideration for your prior deeds. It's an argument that eats its own tail.

For the record, I would hold the same logical fallacy if it were fundamentalist Christians, Menonites, celery worshipers, Satanists, or voodoo witch doctors. The fact that it is Muslim bears no relevence to the ideaology underlying the logic. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
But now, BECAUSE it was Allah, they feel they have the right to in effect declare world war and take hostages and riot and make threats. To me, that's where the line in logic is stepped over. If you want equality, then stop demanding special consideration for your prior deeds. It's an argument that eats its own tail.
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Again you have a point, but I don't think you're seeing mine. I don't know what it's like in Europe but say it's similar to the US. Muslims who have done no wrong have been getting degraded and assaulted for a while now. Just look at this site. Here's a sample...

[font=arial, sans-serif]Several Palmdale public high school students stayed home after they were named on a list that said the terrorist attacks would be avenged with a "massacre." [/font][font=arial, sans-serif]A Huntington Beach man has been arrested for making a death threat against an Iranian couple in their 70s. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]An Encino Afghan/Persian restaurant was burned down. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]On September 20, State Attorney General Bill Lockyer said his office was investigating 70 possible hate crimes against Muslims, Arab Americans and others that have allegedly occurred since September 11th. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]In LA, a man attacked the car of an Iranian family with a baseball bat and hammer. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]In Reedley, a town near Fresno, a Yemeni shopkeeper was shot and killed September 29 in what appeared to be a racially motivated attack. The victim received a phone call the previous day, threatening him based on his race. A threatening note also had been left on his car in previous days. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]Two suspects wrote "die" on a Persian Club booth on the Pierce College campus in Woodland Hills. An altercation ensued between the suspects and one or two "Persian" students, but the victims did not press charges. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]A San Francisco resident's vandalized car had "F--- you Muslim" scratched onto the hood. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]In Fullerton, a Sikh ice cream truck vendor was reportedly chased out of a neighborhood by a resident wielding a baseball bat. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]Two women speaking Spanish in a doctor's office were physically attacked by a Caucasian woman yelling, "you foreigners caused all this trouble." [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]An Arab American woman was assaulted and threatened with a gun in Los Angeles. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]Arcadia resident Adel Karas, 48, was shot point-blank at the International Market, a store he owned. The family believes Karas was targeted because he was Egyptian American mistaken for a Muslim American. Although no money was taken, the attack has been classified as a robbery. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]While at lunch, the friend of a young Persian woman jokingly called her an Arab. A woman sitting next to them followed the pair out of the restaurant, asked the woman if she was Arab and then punched her in the face.
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[/font]

See non-Muslims hypocrits trounced Muslim rights/views while apparently expecting they're own to be respected. Maybe the last straw for some being thse cartoons.

Some Muslim hypocrits riots and trounce non-Muslim views/rights of people that probably weren't involved in the above actions or the cartoons.

So now what? Trounce Muslim views/rights worse....even people not involved in the riots? There's that pattern again.[font=arial, sans-serif]
[/font]
 
flavio said:
See non-Muslims hypocrits trounced Muslim rights/views while apparently expecting they're own to be respected. Maybe the last straw for some being thse cartoons.

Some Muslim hypocrits riots and trounce non-Muslim views/rights of people that probably weren't involved in the above actions or the cartoons.

So now what? Trounce Muslim views/rights worse....even people not involved in the riots? There's that pattern again.[font=arial, sans-serif]
[/font]
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I guess that's why it's called a war.
 
When some piece of shit puts a crucifix in a jar of piss & calls it art & NYC doesn't burn, compare actions of Muslims & Christians rights & see who gives & who takes.
 
Gonz said:
When some piece of shit puts a crucifix in a jar of piss & calls it art & NYC doesn't burn, compare actions of Muslims & Christians rights & see who gives & who takes.
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you gotta watch out with that analogy though Gonz....

Say somebody put a pig, with a freshly cut throat under a glass and called it art,
or framed a swastika, or anything racial as art....
Some people here aren't above roiting.
 
Nah...there'd be protests...with signs & angry words, not burnings. It happens every week at a Klan march.
 
um, the klan march in Ohio resulted in that one roit where they torch a pub, and several people got hurt.
 
catocom said:
told ya so. :D
So Now do you admit defeat? :lol2:
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Nah, I'm going to contend that if he put a little effort into explaining his reasoning I might get it. :D

Now remember earlier in the thread I said:

"For example watch what happens when I bring this up....."

What happened?

images
 
flavio said:
Nah, I'm going to contend that if he put a little effort into explaining his reasoning I might get it. :D

Now remember earlier in the thread I said:

"For example watch what happens when I bring this up....."

What happened?

images
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For some reason, I knew you wouldn't.
I can't wrap my mind around, but I have made certain assumptions, which
for far have not been disproved about you. (which I won't go into) ;)

I haven't read, or looked at that other part yet. I wanted to stay focused on one thing at a time.
 
catocom said:
um, the klan march in Ohio resulted in that one roit where they torch a pub, and several people got hurt.
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...and the people had a shit fit. There wasn't large scale riots following in Peoria or Sacramento because the fools in Toledo couldn't keep it together.
 
Gonz said:
...and the people had a shit fit. There wasn't large scale riots following in Peoria or Sacramento because the fools in Toledo couldn't keep it together.
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Yeah, but them people in the east were passing around a friggin' cartoon strip.
I wonder how many of them have TVs, or programming to the outside.???
I'm not saying that they aren't crazy as hell, I'm just saying there are some here
that are just time-bombs.
See over there, you see what the police LET them do. Here people know they'll
only get away with it for a limited time.
 
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