The downfall of America has begun

She's always thought babies are cute... she has her own baby already... Maggie her doll - she doesn't seem to distinguish between real and imaginary. She's also had close contact with Conner and Amy as babies and has shown no interest in having a real one, especially after seeing them have their nappies changed!

I'm more concerned about Katie's health. With her heart condition she is unable to take contraceptive pills and any operation is highly risky and is required to be carried out in a specialist cardiac unit with a CICU with antibiotic cover. Also a pregnancy would kill her. I may still have to make the sterilisation decision at some later date for her.

At the moment Katie is in a very controlled atmosphere, she never goes anywhere without a vetted escort, usually female. I'm concerned about what will happen when she leaves school in 5 years time and she changes over to adult services and may be with people who are much older than herself.
 
Aunty Em said:
Also a pregnancy would kill her. I may still have to make the sterilisation decision at some later date for her.
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In which case I personally think that the sterilization decission would be warranted. It's not because you or society feels the need to control her (which I believe is what Prof was getting at with his post) but that you are protecting her health...
 
I wasn't getting at anything. Some people felt (and still feel) that people with genetically passed deficienties should not be allowed to reproduce since their offspring whould never be able to have a normal life. Some felt that , pardon my french, retarded people had to be sterilized because they would never be able to look after any children on their own. Some people feel that handicaps, retards and cripples should have been locked up and hidden away. Some people think that they should have every right and chance that normal people have. That their kid might not carry the genetic trait and might be normal.

Everyone thinks their reasons are valid. But activists usually go home after spouting off, to perfectly normal, sheltered lives. Em has to live it 24/7. She has to make decisions for herself and Katie that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Someone with unlimitted resources could tough out Katie having a kid. Or pay a full time nurse to look after her. That's not the case.

And Em, I respect you having the courage to consider that possibility. I could probably make it myself if I had to, but I thank the Good Lord that I've not had to.
 
{quote=Prof]Someone with unlimitted resources could tough out Katie having a kid. Or pay a full time nurse to look after her. That's not the case.[/quote]

I MAY be misunderstanding but I thought she said cause of Katie's health a pregnancy woudl kill her.
 
You forget I worked with mentally handicapped adults for 8 years, so I know exactly what used to go on in the past. I hope Katie never has to go into residential care because I can't look after her any more.

I also hope that she will be able to be part of any decision made about her health in the future, but I'm not sure if she will ever be able to fully understand the wider implications of a particular course of action or lack of it. So as I said, I will probably have to make the decisions for her. It really depends on the circumstances at the time.
 
Nixy said:
Prof said:
Someone with unlimitted resources could tough out Katie having a kid. Or pay a full time nurse to look after her. That's not the case.
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I MAY be misunderstanding but I thought she said cause of Katie's health a pregnancy woudl kill her.
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I did... it's unlikely that she would survive the pregnancy much less the birth because of the increased stress on her heart. A pregnant womans blood capacity increases considerably.
 
prof is this what you were talking about?


i dont think the just say no campaigns work very well tp be honest. they should know all the consequnces of sex and also the alternatives to unprotected sex(this does include abstience yes but also the diaphragm,condoms and other methods of sexual intercourse).
 
The story said:
Wagoner's group recently reviewed 25 years of existing research on 150 sex ed programs and found 19 that have been proven to reduce teen pregnancies and STDs or cause at least two beneficial changes in sexual risk behaviors.
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WOOHOO!!! A 13% success rate. Yep, that's one good way to keep kids safe.

The story said:
Teens and the Failure Rate

But abstinence-only supporters say those who push condoms on teenagers underestimate the effectiveness of wait-until-marriage messages as well as the harmful effects of premarital sex on teenagers.

Adolescents need to understand that no birth control method is 100 percent effective, they say, especially when used by teens, who are more likely to use them incorrectly.

Take birth control pills, says Dr. Patricia Sulak, an obstetrician/gynecologist and contraceptive researcher. Virtually foolproof birth control when used right, teens experience failure rates with the pill of up to 30 percent, she said.

And condoms, which in the general population fail to prevent pregnancy up to 16 percent of the time, are "horrible" for teens, Sulak said. "These people are out there telling kids just use a condom. Are they crazy? There are no data that show condoms are the answer," she said.

Sulak also serves as the medical director of the Scott & White Sex Education Program, which advocates abstinence for teens and has developed a sex education curriculum used by more than 30 school districts called "Worth the Wait."

"Worth the Wait" does not talk about religion or morality, Sulak says — it talks about facts. "When kids have sex early, bad things can and do happen," she said. "I'm not anti-contraception, but even the really good ones fail. We give [teens] that information."
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Must be they're not ready.



Now for the real information.
CDC said:
Four out of ten adolescent girls become pregnant before the age of 20, resulting in nearly 900,000 teen pregnancies each year. Eighty percent of these pregnancies are unintended and 79% are to unmarried teens. Since only about one-third of teen mothers complete high school and 80% of them end up on welfare, the cost to society is staggering. Some estimates say the cost to society of teens 17 years of age and younger having children is $29 billion annually. This figure does not include the cost of detecting and treating sexually transmitted diseases and their consequences. Approximately four million teens get a sexually transmitted disease each year.
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The daughters of teen mothers are 22% more likely to become teen mothers themselves. Also, the children of teen mothers are at greater risk of abuse and neglect than children born to older parents. Children of teen mothers tend to perform poorly in school. The sons of teen mothers are 13% more likely to end up in prison (Wolfe, B., & Perozek, M. (1997)
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7 out of 10 adolescent mothers drop out of high school (Sexual Health Update, winter 1998, Vol. 6 No. 3, Medical Institute).
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One last thing A13. Your 15 year old daughter comes to you & says she & her boyfriend are thinking about "doing it". Will you encourage her to become a statistic?
 
People weren't dying from sex, the teen birth rate wasn't astronomical & this isn't about me.
 
So, Gonz, the overall teen birth rate was lower when you were younger so it was OK for teen sex? Now that it is higher it is not OK?

See, that isn't solving the problem that is just gonna start rollercoasters statistics of rising and falling teen birthrates if we think that way.
 
a13antichrist said:
It didn't work at all. People just killed their daughters that got pregnant. Or banished them. The "problem" never worsened, it just got acceptable to hear about it. The solution is to stop being retards, pure and simple.
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[on topic]So you're saying if we hadnt invented religion, and BTW it was invented, we wouldnt be in this mess. Damn simple solution to all this if you ask me...[/on topic]

OK let the hijacking restart
 
Four out of ten adolescent girls become pregnant before the age of 20, resulting in nearly 900,000 teen pregnancies each year. Eighty percent of these pregnancies are unintended and 79% are to unmarried teens. Since only about one-third of teen mothers complete high school and 80% of them end up on welfare, the cost to society is staggering.
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I am not advocating teen sex here but why, if we are not supposed to, do we become sexually mature at 11-13 years? Surely if we werent meant to this wouldnt happen til much later....go figger
 
steweygrrrr said:
I am not advocating teen sex here but why, if we are not supposed to, do we become sexually mature at 11-13 years? Surely if we werent meant to this wouldnt happen til much later....go figger
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were not sexually mature at those ages mate. it jsut happens to be that people can have sex at those ages but the body is still develpoping .
 
You know what I mean though, females start to ovulate and are capable of gestating a foetus and males produce fertile spermies
 
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