The Left, The Flag, & Patriotism

Jeslek

Jeslek

Banned
You know, the flag is nothing but a symbol of America. The majority of people who display it on their cars or fly it over their homes, do so simply as a show of respect and admiration for this great nation in which we live. That's not propaganda or political spin, that's just how a lot of people in this country feel.

Furthermore, in and of themselves, your political party and views on the war have nothing to do whether you're patriotic or not. For example, if you said, "Who's more patriotic: a pro-war Republican or an anti-war Democrat?" My response would be, "There's no way to know with just that information."

That being said, why are there so many people on the left and in the anti-war movement who have their patriotism questioned? Could it be because well -- there are manypeople on the left and in the anti-war movement who are not all that patriotic? For example, I mentioned the flag. I want to post just some of the responses from members of the Democratic Underground when they were asked, "Will you still fly the flag?" (to be fair, there were more than a few people at the DU who didn't agree with these sentiments)...
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Rampant lion: Yes indeed, i'll fly the flag of scotland, britain, the EU, canada, nederlands, germany, france.... but the american one is a shame... it symbolizes nothing except lies, bigotry, hatred and war. Perhaps when it means something positive, i might have one around.

thermodynamic: Upside down, with blood and oil stains on it. Maybe a letter "W" somewhere, but I don't think that's necessary. Fake blood, too - something that looks like blood. The real stuff dries to an icky brown color, not entirely distinguishable from oil...

Mari333: I have the French flag and the UN flag on my pole now... they represent me better then anyone could at this moment.

otohara: Don't Have One, Won't Buy One why, so I can be like my red-neck neighbors across the street. Who fly thier big flags, but regularly break the rules on water conservation.

ImanAtheist: no. this is NOT a country to be proud to be a part of.

latebloomer: I'll continue to proudly fly my Earth Flag
I have never been an American flag waver. That flag has had too much blood on it from the very beginning. Those who think that it symbolizes freedom and justice should read "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. We need to evolve as a species and get past this petty nationalism that is responsible for so much death and misery. someday, maybe it will be.

redeye: Yeah sure. Several of them. One, is the US flag, upside down (maybe I'll burn or tear it a little, too). Two, is the flag of California. Three, is the flag of Cascadia. Four, is the flag of the EU, which is currently the world's paradigm of internationalism. Five, is the peace flag, for pretty bovious reasons.

librarycard: The flag is not that important in other democratic countries Neither is the anthem, though both were obsessions in pre-WWII Germany, as was the Soviet flag ever present in occupied lands.
Why is the flag an obsession in the US?

starcade: Flame me if you must, but I am definitely considering burning it... The flag is no longer representative of the nation for which it once stood. A more proper American flag for our times would replace the 50 stars with corporate logos. Otherwise, fly it upside down. We are in international distress.

I hate to break it to the left, but if they're stereotyped as being unpatriotic, it's not because of some brilliant propaganda campaign dreamed up by Republican spin doctors, it's because people have heard things like the above over and over again from the left and they're still hearing it....
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I am so glad you are not an American. I hope you never ever get the chance to be one....because you never EVER will be one.
 
Sounds like a bunch of college kids to me. Let 'em work for a living for 15 years or so. Let them have others depending on them. Then they'd change their tune.


That's gotta be the biggest problem with america today. Too much focus on "me" and not enough on "us".
 
Professur said:
Let 'em work for a living for 15 years or so. Let them have others depending on them. Then they'd change their tune.
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What he said.
 
Q said:
I am so glad you are not an American. I hope you never ever get the chance to be one....because you never EVER will be one.
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Oh but I am one. And I am going to serve my country. And you should be happy... I'm going to pay taxes so you can get a bigger welfare check. ;)
 
If you were really an American than you could have voted in the last election.

This is just more of your fake bs like the pictures of you.
 
Jeslek said:
Q said:
I am so glad you are not an American. I hope you never ever get the chance to be one....because you never EVER will be one.
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Oh but I am one. And I am going to serve my country. And you should be happy... I'm going to pay taxes so you can get a bigger welfare check. ;)
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Just another preservation.
 
i didnt know you were american. i thought you were canadian. and honestly that was some bs. as flavio said americans could vote in th election so why didnt you. and what you said to Q was way out of line.
 
i'd be inclined to agree, i think its time to lay off the personal digs and niggles over here.

intersting that you trawled the board for all the ones that said they didn't fly the us flag. there were plenty who said they did. personally i wouldn't fly the us flag but then i'm not a us citizen so that seems fair enough.

in the uk we don't often fly our flag on a personal basis, some ex servicement do but most ordinary people don't. in part it is what the flag represents in man cases - an imperial past that many are uncomfortable with. its not that the uk is unpatriotic but there is a strong cynicism toward the government and the country as a whole.
its not that we dislike our country but i think we see the union jack as rather outdated, representing something the uk was but is now a long way from or is something we want to distance ourselves from. i don't think it is any surprise that the recent popularity of the union jack comes at a time of retro fashions looking back to the 50s and 60s.

i think patriotism can be a wonderful thing, full of pride and a sense of collectiveness. it can also be damaging when it begins to border on nationalism and refers to exclusivity. flying flags makes statements, to some people that statement will be a shared joy to others a deep fear or animosity.

in wales the union jack represents oppression and exclusion - a constant reminder that they are not recognised. outside the uk the union flag can represent a ideal of freedom beyond the borders of another country, it can also represent a past of subjection or a future of pain.

i wouldn't fly the union jack, not because i hate britain but because it does not represent my britain.

i also wouldn't sing our national anthem but that's because its crap.
 
Jeslek, would you please, pretty please, shut the fuck up? You're making the other conservatives look stupid by association.
 
Jeslek with that kind of attitude you wont last long in any service.
I truly think you are under the assumption that somehow your going to be some cool(marlboro type)serviceman. in the end you'll end up a grunt like the rest of the enlisted men.
And i seriously doubt that your gonna make enough money to pay my welfare check. Im not a cheap date. :D

from the looks of where your hanging out to get you little post at the top, they dont deserve the privelage to hang anytype of flag. they are like pro sport fans the flavor of the moment is what they follow. they have no real idea what life is without daddy and mommies money. If they ever really had to make a living and pay for their own schooling, they'd prolly kill themselves from the pressure.
 
It's what every self-respecting know it all needs. Certainly puts a crimp in the old "I know because I've been told"
 
My folks used to constantly accuse me of being a know it all. It really frustrated me that they didn't understand that i really did know everything.
 
btw, why does the left is always relationated with being "anti patriotic" and "anti war" ??

Those are 3 very different concepts with no relation between them.
 
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