The poison barb has entered the system

Gonz said:
Well then spike, set us all straight. What did happen? How did the entire housing market collapse?
Click to expand...

Mosy people were buying houses they could afford and homes were increasing in value then interest rates changed and their payments went to something they couldn't afford. Houses started dropping in value and many people found themselves owing far more than their home was worth. House prices continue to drop. A lot of people that were on the verge of buying a house decide to wait because prices are falling. This accelerates the problem.

That's not the entirre story but it's some of it. And it makes a lot more sense then your "Suddenly there were massive numbers of bad citzens who chose to be evil" theory.
 
I personally know people that were flipping.
They got caught holding a bag. They took a chance, and it didn't pan out.

What people WON't understand is it IS a gamble.
Anybody that thought they had a sure thing in the housing market, miscalculated.

Chris Dodd, an barney can answer for the rest. AFAIC
 
Gonz said:
Sales techniques? Can you find an example of a house, say 1800sq/ft with a yard, that's actually worth $380,000? In the unlikely event you can can you, with all the accounting tricks, find it for less than $999./mo?

Jane the baker & her significant other, the production worker, simply are over their head. They KNEW it going in. They hoped for a miracle but they KNEW they couldn't aford it. Anyone remember gas, power, water? How about insurance, (car & home).

The writers of these mortgages were complete shits. However, unless there's a gun pointed at your head, don't sign a mortgage that is more than your monthly income...especially if you've counting on crap like overtime to pay for it.

Irresponsibility on all parts.
Click to expand...

The point, Gonz, is that not everybody that's in trouble is someone who bought a house at three times it's value or took out a loan where the payments were more than they could afford at the time. You try to put everyone into a neat little box to satisfy your sensibilities. They just don't fit.

Some people are simply too stupid. What's your solution for dealing with the idiots?
 
Hey I know, let's bring back indentured servitude! Then the defaulters can work for say a 21 to 36 year contract as slaves for the lenders and when the term of servitude is over they will be granted a 3 bedroom double wide on a prime 1/2 acre, say at the end of the main runway of some major metropolitan airport!

If the defaulters refuse then we can have debtor's prison.

It's a win, win, for the benevolent lenders!
 
how 'bout instead of indoctrinating our children with "everybody has to be exactly equal",
to "if you work hard and save, you can do better".
 
spike said:
Mosy people were buying houses they could afford and homes were increasing in value then interest rates changed and their payments went to something they couldn't afford.
Click to expand...

So, they signed a note that they couldn't afford.


chcr said:
The point, Gonz, is that not everybody that's in trouble is someone who bought a house at three times it's value or took out a loan where the payments were more than they could afford at the time.
Click to expand...

I agree. However, this 3-4% will not collapse a market.

chcr said:
Some people are simply too stupid. What's your solution for dealing with the idiots?
Click to expand...

Let them rent an apartment.

Housing returns to an affordable state. The construction business will be slow but Obama has already set them up with bridge & road jobs. People will return to buying homes (at more affordable prices) and as long as Chris Dodd & Barney Frank stay out if it (Fannie & Freddie too), and we allow the market to decide, not politicians, who can afford a home, it'll settle back into normality.

There was a report I saw a few weeks back that something like 95% of those who have already been "assisted" with thier homes are, within 6 months, back in the hole.

Let 'em fail. Corporate or private, business or individual, let 'em stand or fail, on their own, as is intended.
 
catocom said:
how 'bout instead of indoctrinating our children with "everybody has to be exactly equal",
to "if you work hard and save, you can do better".
Click to expand...

Damned straight. Equal opportunities does not mean equal results.
 
Gonz said:
Let 'em fail. Corporate or private, business or individual, let 'em stand or fail, on their own, as is intended.
Click to expand...

You're missing the bigger picture. The government is trying (and failing) to prevent a deflationary spiral that will likely lead to a full blown depression. I'm not saying you're wrong there though. Your way would lead to the depression more quickly but I suspect recovery would be faster too. I understand what the administration is trying to do though. The last administration was trying to do exactly the same thing and getting similar results. That's why I get so irritated when you guys scream about what Obama's doing. Bush was doing specifically the same thing with even less oversight. Either way, they're all lying about how bad it really is.

Re let 'em rent an apartment, I agree. Doesn't really deal with the stupidity problem.
 
Gonz said:
Maybe you missed this part...here, let me help


Better?
Click to expand...
...on bloated prices which no longer reflect the reality of housing costs. If the premiums are reduced to actual market value, many of the people who are stuck in this mess will be able to continue payments and keep their house while the only victim will be the estimated value. The bank won't lose any more than if the mortgager simply walked away defaulting on the loan and leadning to a foreclosure. In point of fact, the banks gains because a house with incoming monthly mortgage payments inbound brings them more money than holding the house in foreclosure and attempting to sell it.

If the bank forecloses, they have to sell the house and they'll have to follow market value to do so. This revaluation of principle might very well allow them to avoid such a terrible loss not to mention the amounts they have to pay in maintenance and taxes while they hold onto these assets.
 
Gonz said:
Maybe you missed this part...here, let me help


Better?
Click to expand...

no, actually.

some people get away with debt relief every day because of bankruptcy. does that mean that all of our debts are suddenly going to be resolved?

no.

right.

in some cases there may be reduction in overall cost of a home.

does that mean that the government will be controlling, in a general sense, prices and home values?

no. not all all.

but i guess this thing makes for some good inflammatory thread-bait, for ideological grandstanding in the face of a highly disagreeable reality.

so, please, continue.
 
does that mean that the government will be controlling
Click to expand...

A journey of a thousand miles begins how?

If you want to, or must, leave a legal agreement through bankruptcy, then do as you must. The key word is "LEAVE".

MrBishop said:
...on bloated prices which no longer reflect the reality of housing costs.
Click to expand...

So? If you chose to make an offer & it was accepted, that is the value of what you wanted. The government does not
have the authority to re-write your principle just because you're an idiot & decided to overpay. Get an apartment.
 
The value is usually figured out by an appraiser. If the appraised value went way down because of a market collapse it doesn't make people idiots it makes them unable to see the future.

You are so intent on blaiming the mortgage crisis on individuals who suddenly only in the last few years bought houses they couldn't afford. That is a ridiculous idea.

The cause really is in larger things like relaxation of regulations on how much capital investment banks where required to keep on hand and their new found ability to turn mortgages into derivatives. There was far more gambling going on in the banking industry than there was with individual home buyers.

Check these out
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1221672153.php

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blog...hen-mortgage-derivatives-get-included-in-cdos
 
spike said:
The value is usually figured out by an appraiser.
Click to expand...

Sorry spike but value is tendered by an offer. Until then, it's just a price. One to be found acceptable, or not.

The banks can cajole & sell & push & squeeze, but until someone signs that little line, it's all speculation. Nobody was forced to pay outrageous sums for housing. It was a choice.
 
...except if the price of the house sold is considered too low by..the banks...and it's certainly not in the interest of the owner, the Realtor, taxes, neighbouring houses, nor the bank to lower the price of a house.
 
Gonz said:
Sorry spike but value is tendered by an offer. Until then, it's just a price. One to be found acceptable, or not.

The banks can cajole & sell & push & squeeze, but until someone signs that little line, it's all speculation. Nobody was forced to pay outrageous sums for housing. It was a choice.
Click to expand...

Sorry Gonz but value is indicated by appraisals. What you pay for a house is simply the price wich could be above or below the value. The problem comes in when the value drops far below the price that was paid.
 
My 1996 Ford F-150 is valued at $150,000. I'll take $98,950. Wanna make an offer?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top