The tide marches on

valkyrie said:
Food Stamps can not be used for buying liquor, or toilet paper. Those rules.
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But they CAN be traded to people in exchange for cash, drugs, etc. That's a big reason why states have moved/are moving to debit cards instead of paper stamps.

Gonz said:
Thanks to lawyers. Why not go to his office? Lawyers trained him to C.Y.A. Why didn't he come to you? CYA.

The ER is for traumatic emergencies, not illnesses. Fucking lawyers.
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Sometimes the care a person needs is beyond the scope of what a doctor's office would be able to provide.
 
MrBishop said:
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

In other words...Insurance companies and Hospitals are fucking your economy, your people and your over-all health. It all comes down to greed.
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You need to put the blame where it really belongs.

The greed was that of the lawyers and their clients who lodged specious lawsuit after specious lawsuit which drove up costs.

Add to that the stupid juries made up of people who have had class envy and hatred of business drilled into them day after day.

How would you like to try to run a business where you are in constant self-defense mode hoping beyond hope that some greedy self indulgent leech doesn't try to put the screws to you for fun and profit?
 
Inkara1 said:
Sometimes the care a person needs is beyond the scope of what a doctor's office would be able to provide.
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Oh, absolutely. In that case, the physician makes a call & the hospital admits the patient. The ER was designed fro trauma.
 
There is only one issue that really really gets me angry here and it's this one. So long as medicine and drugs are a for profit industry, money will always be first and people last. I am sure with the research capability 'peel has, he could make 1000 hours of reading on why socialized medicine is bad and he'd still be 90% wrong. Those horror stories are pretty much cherry picked from the worst national systems.

When I hear people argue for medicine for profit, I know that these are people who essentially value money way too much. I always hope and pray a medical crisis will financially ruin you or a loved one until some fucking sense enters your head but more importantly your heart.

Of course I hope a full physical recovery is had after you are financially eliminated!

A HUGE percentage of this imaginary "welfare state" you fuckers like to whine about is because of a lack of socialized medicine.

I really have to stop even reading threads relating to this issue.
 
Oh yeah one last thing, what percentage of America do you figure (among the uninsured) has even the savings to cover even one emergency visit?

I'd bet 20% would be extremely optimistic.
 
You know though in the interests of being "off topic", sometimes I think there just is no hope for this country. Our system has gone so a muck that there is no way real change can happen. It's all long wordy bills with stuff sliding in under other stuff and watered down shit, made up in large part by folks who don't know shit about what they are regulating. Health decisions in this ever diversified specialized world should really be almost wholly decided by those within the medical community and I am not talking rich bitch doctors, but professionals from the whole economic spectrum. And likewise for other industries. The thing is though as more and more of us dip lower and lower economically, the simple issue of medicine for profit alone could completely destroy this nation. If I was of a mind to I could probably really help start get that ball rolling. People are mad as hell about this. Just because you guys on here are set up comfortable for now, I'd bet the anger over this crap is growing exponentially every day. I sure see it in my tiny corner of this world.

You know Gonz you seem to want a 100% free market, and all I see that being is incentive to rip folks off. I don't give a crap about how irresponsible the home buyers were, when wall street is continually allowed to run legal swindles, they will it's being proved right now! If I can make something that complicated look solid to folks that only want a home and security I will create irresponsibility where none may have been present before. Those who do regulate Wall street need to be in large part long established and reputable people who know the business not a bunch of bureaucrats.

The real trouble is not over regulation, it's faulty regulation.
 
randomJACKASS said:
You know though in the interests of being "off topic", sometimes I think there just is no hope for this country. Our system has gone so a muck that there is no way real change can happen. It's all long wordy bills with stuff sliding in under other stuff and watered down shit, made up in large part by folks who don't know shit about what they are regulating. Health decisions in this ever diversified specialized world should really be almost wholly decided by those within the medical community and I am not talking rich bitch doctors, but professionals from the whole economic spectrum. And likewise for other industries. The thing is though as more and more of us dip lower and lower economically, the simple issue of medicine for profit alone could completely destroy this nation. If I was of a mind to I could probably really help start get that ball rolling. People are mad as hell about this. Just because you guys on here are set up comfortable for now, I'd bet the anger over this crap is growing exponentially every day. I sure see it in my tiny corner of this world.
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Give the man a star!:headbang:
 
You know I would think the concept of socialized medicine would be of great interest to folks who whine incessantly about paying taxes that don't benefit them, but on this issue the right is consistently all wrong!
 
randomJACKASS said:
You know I would think the concept of socialized medicine would be of great interest to folks who whine incessantly about paying taxes that don't benefit them, but on this issue the right is consistently all wrong!
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If taxes don't benefit them, why would people want to pay?
 
I really should have said whine about taxes. Taxes that don't benefit you directly usually benefit you indirectly in ways most people would never even consider, but no point in even trying to get into that.
 
Gonz said:
Thanks to lawyers. Why not go to his office? Lawyers trained him to C.Y.A. Why didn't he come to you? CYA.

The ER is for traumatic emergencies, not illnesses. Fucking lawyers.
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My kidneys were shutting down. I had blood in my urine by then. The virus worked very fast on my system (and quite brutally) and I'd only had it for about 28 hours when I went to the ER. (Something like a 36 hour cholera, if you can imagine.) I don't think it was CYA as much as "OMG you need to be seen NOW" and a genuine concern. When I showed up at the ER they took me back immediately. This wasn't just a little "bug".

The ER isn't just for broken bones and gun shot wounds. I agree that it shouldn't be used for "urgent care" services, and I asked my doctor if I should go there and he said "no!"
 
Gonz said:
Oh, absolutely. In that case, the physician makes a call & the hospital admits the patient. The ER was designed fro trauma.
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FYI, I support a hospital system... and the ER is designed not just for traumatic injury but for serious illness and life threatening medical events. The hospital would not admit the patient without first being diagnosed and if there is an immediate need for care that patient is seen in the ER first, admitted after. Patients must be stabilized first before being sent to a nursing ward, or must be sent to surgery to be stabilized before being admitted to a floor.

I do not believe that too many people use the ER as their doctor's office.
 
randomJACKASS said:
I really should have said whine about taxes. Taxes that don't benefit you directly usually benefit you indirectly in ways most people would never even consider, but no point in even trying to get into that.
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now, that's more on the same page ;)
 
randomJACKASS said:
You know though in the interests of being "off topic", sometimes I think there just is no hope for this country. Our system has gone so a muck that there is no way real change can happen. It's all long wordy bills with stuff sliding in under other stuff and watered down shit, made up in large part by folks who don't know shit about what they are regulating. Health decisions in this ever diversified specialized world should really be almost wholly decided by those within the medical community and I am not talking rich bitch doctors, but professionals from the whole economic spectrum. And likewise for other industries. The thing is though as more and more of us dip lower and lower economically, the simple issue of medicine for profit alone could completely destroy this nation. If I was of a mind to I could probably really help start get that ball rolling. People are mad as hell about this. Just because you guys on here are set up comfortable for now, I'd bet the anger over this crap is growing exponentially every day. I sure see it in my tiny corner of this world.

You know Gonz you seem to want a 100% free market, and all I see that being is incentive to rip folks off. I don't give a crap about how irresponsible the home buyers were, when wall street is continually allowed to run legal swindles, they will it's being proved right now! If I can make something that complicated look solid to folks that only want a home and security I will create irresponsibility where none may have been present before. Those who do regulate Wall street need to be in large part long established and reputable people who know the business not a bunch of bureaucrats.

The real trouble is not over regulation, it's faulty regulation.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to randomJACKASS again.
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:headbang:
 
randomJACKASS said:
I really should have said whine about taxes. Taxes that don't benefit you directly usually benefit you indirectly in ways most people would never even consider, but no point in even trying to get into that.
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I don't mind paying taxes for the roads I use, the schools that educate the masses, the parks that are set aside for green space, etc. I don't even mind paying taxes to support my fellow citizens who are physically or mentally unable to care for themselves, either partially or fully. I benefit in some way from all of this (even the indirect benefit of care for elderly and infirm).

What I don't like is for one group of tax payers to pay for projects to benefit a group of people who can pay but don't...
in other words...
I like that bicycle lanes are being planned but shouldn't the cyclists pay for the lanes the way a car owner pays for the road?
 
Well what the hell I'll give a couple brief examples. In California, on the "left coast" there has been a lot of study put into crime rehabilitation. The program came out something like 20% recidivism rate where traditional prison is 80% and the facility was a for profit business, so it helped pay for it self. Yet the revenge morons want to keep the system proven not to work and make it cost more or privatize it so government is not at all responsible for the treatment of offenders. Gladiator school benefits nobody. Non violent offenders locked up with violent ones just creates more violent offenders. I mean this shit is simple logic that so many fucking morons in the country fail to even consider. You could also put a lot more money into treatment for drug/alcohol and mental health issues cutting the cost of prison systems further. Essentially the nonviolent offenders could be housed at various government run businesses that train vocational skills and do the treatment. The violent guys can have fun at existing supermax facilities. It's all about cost efficiency and making the tax dollars count for something. Being forced into treatment and rehabilitation in confinement is no picnic. Prison of any kind sucks ass, it's just a matter of is time well spent there or not?

Eliminate the death penalty, and pass legislation on a federal level mandating that convictions be easier to overturn. Billions are wasted on that shit and most people who are easily provably innocent still end up rotting under the current system. Regulate personal injury lawsuits.

OK now the mythical "welfare state". So welfare is 1% of the budget, 'nuff said. Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid is an ENORMOUS part of the budget. Socialize medicine and pensioners, and disabled folks would probably account for around 2% of the budget, perhaps we could pay them enough to live on and that might make it 5%. But cut all the programs like it seems Gonz would like, and watch crime rise higher still!

It's about common sense, not knee jerk politics All that loose money could be spent on government efficiency to cut the fucking waste.... All this shit is way to radical to ever happen here. I just wonder what flag will fly over the USA next?

I know that stuff is all proven to be effective other places in the world, but you know with our inability to grow and change with the times, either revolution or invasion is an inevitable reality.

Wow I just wasted a lot of time dreaming....

Go ahead shoot it all down I hope I have sense enough not to defend any of this.
 
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