The Truth

Professur

Well-Known Member
How valuable is the truth today? Can you believe anyone anymore? Should you? Should you even bother to tell the truth yourself? Will anyone believe you if you did?

These are all questions rattling around in my head. Questions I can't seem to get a solid answer to. Once upon a time, a man's honour was important. When he said, "You have my word on it.", that was as good as done. Today, unless you have it in writing, signed and notarized, you'd better be wary. And even then, you might get screwed by a loophole. Or the courts might throw the entire document out as invalid. When did the truth become as devalued as the ruble?

I once had a discussion with JJR512 over the value of truth. I'd said I wasn't going to give up the SETI program until I'd done 1000WU. He couldn't grasp the concept that I'd hold to what I'd said when everyone else was migrating to the G&H program. The idea that, regardless of how valuable or invaluable the data might be, I was going to do what I'd said was inconceivable to him. Noone was going to get hurt if I didn't follow through. Noone would lose any money. Noone would even know.

But I'd know. I stuck it out. Not for SETI. Not for the JJR512 SETI team. For me. Because I said I'd do it.

Why, you might ask? I profit nothing from it. I might have gotten even higher in the G&H program if I had changed right away. I might have made it to the Top5, even. It's because I don't lie. It's not worth it to me.

I have a strict moral code. It's not imposed on me by religion. Or by a false sense of my own importance. It's not forced on me at all. I choose to live by it. I choose not to lie for convience. I have made my honesty a badge of pride. And I have been rewarded for it. My customers know, beyond any doubt, that I won't lie to them. And they appreciate it. It makes their jobs easier. And so, they come back. My prices aren't the best. In fact, I'm quite costly. They come back anyways.

My wife knows that I don't lie. And she appreciates it. She knows that, if I said I worked late, I did. If I said I spend the money on something, it's in the toolshed. And if I say, "I love you" I'm not just talking outta my ass.

Once a man's word was his bond. A handshake could seal a deal. Back when the world was small and you knew your neighbour. When shame was a punishment, and overweening pride a sin. When it was accepted that you should be proud of what you'd done in life. Not what you'd accumulated.

Today, the world is a much changed place. Many people don't even know the person living in the house next to them. Yet they chat all night with people thousands of miles away. People they'll never meet. Today, cheats, scoundrels, and lowlifes prosper. Cheating a client gets you a promotion. Getting away with a crime is a badge of pride. Spouses cheat on each other. Divorce isn't even seen as a breach of contract anymore. Car salesmen, mechanics, and lawyers are accepted as liars. Doctors and priests, once the most trusted people, are being caught violating that trust. I won't even send my kids to the park unsupervised.

Today, an honest man is something to be feared. To be ridiculed. Those about him search for his flaws, his failing. They parade them around, to show all that this honest man is not perfect. They attempt to drag him down to their level. When they should be striving to achieve his. Too much work, they cry. Too hard. Why should we work to improve ourselves, when noone else will. They fail to realize that that's exactly why they must try.

Perhaps it's an inherent flaw in the makeup of man. It seems that through the ages, whenever man attempts to rise above the level of animals, he reaches a certain level, and collapses like a house of cards. Egypt, Rome, Greece, all fell. Is our civilization next? And if we go, then what? With the world economy dependant on the west to drive its markets, will the entire world collapse with us?

I choose to obey the laws and rules of civilization. The written and unwritten ones. The spoken and unspoken. For without those rules, and laws, anarchy reigns. And for those who thing that anarchy is cool, you are so very wrong.
 
Prof, I cherish honesty too. But the gravity of a situation is relative to its content. If things are said in the context of a joke, they can't be scrutinized with the same intensity as national security....One could always lean on the "respect" aspect as well. Was it disrespectful, given your sensitivity to this, for you to publicly call anyone to task and level personal attacks over a "no harm, no foul" situation? If feelings ran that deep, I think the respectful thing to do would have been a PM....Its not as if someone were out to undermine the forum or its members.
 
Depends upon your definition of anarchy. The 1642 definition, or the 1678 definition?
 
my first thought was another automatically generated letter. i doubt you'd post stuff like that, Prof.
if this is AGAIN about the thing in TH...then it's overreacted. totally.
i can't believe that things like that would actually bother you
 
i'm dissapointed you're actually making such a big deal out of it. being lied to bothers me as well, but it doesn't bother me if it doesn't effect me and was intended as a joke. my life would be quite hard, if i took offence of all the small trivial issues.
 
I agree with Squiggy, it was never intended to be the cold honest truth, the other party saw it as a joke, and was just playing about. I see no reason in this thread other than it being directed to that party and pertaining to that situation, did it mess you up sooo much that you come here with this? geez.
 
prof, very good questions. My father raised me to trust no one.
For a long time it was a very lonely world. Rarely did i take anyone word. It could have been abe lincoln talking to me and it wouldnt matter. Would/do i believe what everyone tells me NO.
Human nature comes into play, not that they necessarily intended to lie to me but things happen.
Should i always tell the whole truth? Thats a vague area. Am i gonna tell my wife that a particular outfit makes her look like a circus tent? Or i thought my father was braindead most of his life?
prolly not. Why, its the truth. but more harm than good would come of it.
i I think along with truth comes understanding and respect.
As in both circumstances i mentioned. I understand that the truth could hurt some feelings and i have enough respect for them not to want to hurt their feelings.
Does it mean i lied to them? i dont think so. but then again its a matter of perception.
 
I have the distict feeling that this thread is about some specific event that I have no knowledge of.

Maybe Someone could pass out a synopsis?
 
To thine own self be true.
Is it worth it? What integrity do liars have? It does seem like today honesty is for most people, a secondary thought. I'm not always totally honest but i love the truth and strive for it. I have a great respect for people who keep their word and strive to be honest people. Honesty builds character. Not just in some insignificant sense of the word but it builds you up and makes you stronger. It's easy to lie but honesty requires discipline, selflessness, will and courage. Honest people are people that can be depended on and trusted when times get tough. We've been living in a slack moment in history but it won't always be this way. If you believe in a pure evolutionary state then you have to recognize that honesty makes no sense in the world of survival of the fittest. And yet we have a conscience. Figure that one out. Why would evolution build us a conscience? At any rate and whatever your beliefs, honesty and truth are regarded by some of us as an important and worthy lifetime goal. Sorry if this sounds cheesy prof, but i have great respect for anyone who values something as important as the truth, especially in this world.
 
What a nice sentiment prof, but one I have to laugh at. The ability to lie is an evolved trait; we have the ability because it serves a purpose. If always telling the truth was unquestionably better, we would likely have evolved differently. While I share the same ideas as you for the most part, I realize like sam that in some cases telling a lie does less harm than telling the truth. No, not nearly as often as people would lead themselves to believe, but circumstances do exist. As for this specific circumstance - well if you can't take a joke...

I know, it's a cold pill to swallow. But hey, I'm just telling the truth.
 
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