This Flag thing, Again

[Gato_Solo]

But then, why should that matter? If their intent is not to be hateful, they shouldn't have to explain themselves to anyone else.

Because that's the way things are. People are visual by nature, and certain things mean something just by sight. If the young man in question had talked to people first, maybe things would've been different. I doubt it, but he could've at least attempted to placate the matter before it got out of hand. His choice to show his 'colors' in such a charged atmosphere did more harm than good.

 

[FluerVanderloo]

I'm not saying you shouldn't take responsiblity for you actions, don't get me wrong there. And yes, I do know the history behind the flag, and that is what I want to convey when I display it. But again, I don't see why I should have to answer to someone about it, especially if they are harrassing me about my decision.

This issue is dying politically, but unfortunately it is still evident in schools all over the place. From what I understand there was an issue in Georgia a few years back concerning a school mascot. And last week a racial issue erupted at the school down my street when a white kid was approached by a black kid who knew what the First National flag was.

 

[Gato_Solo]

I'm not saying you shouldn't take responsiblity for you actions, don't get me wrong there. And yes, I do know the history behind the flag, and that is what I want to convey when I display it. But again, I don't see why I should have to answer to someone about it, especially if they are harrassing me about my decision.

This issue is dying politically, but unfortunately it is still evident in schools all over the place. From what I understand there was an issue in Georgia a few years back concerning a school mascot. And last week a racial issue erupted at the school down my street when a white kid was approached by a black kid who knew what the First National flag was.

Have you told anyone why, or are you on a fishing expedition? The best time to let people know how you see an issue is before it becomes a flashpoint. If I decide to wear a t-shirt that says 'Kill Whitey', would I be as correct in my 'free speech' as the young man who flew the CBF? No. I'm inciting a riot...just as he was. Now, suppose 'Whitey' is a known criminals last name, but you didn't know that. I explain to you about this person 'Whitey', his list of crimes, my stance on the death penalty, and his standing on death row. You get the drift now? If I come up to you wearing a t-shirt that says 'Kill Whitey', then it has a different meaning.

 

[FluerVanderloo]

The whole idea of Freedom of Speech was created to give people the right to speak out against the government, if they found it was necessary for the well-being of the country. In other words POLITICAL DEBATE.

True, but then can you explain why the idea of Freedom of Speech is now accepted as a general right as opposed to specifically speaking out against the government? You’re referring back to past interpretation instead of modern interpretation it would appear. The reason why it was created is of no matter, it is how it’s interpreted now that makes the difference. You stated that with regards to interpretation of the flag in the past compared to modern-day, and my previous argument about the Bill of Rights.

 

[FluerVanderloo]

Have you told anyone why, or are you on a fishing expedition? The best time to let people know how you see an issue is before it becomes a flashpoint. If I decide to wear a t-shirt that says 'Kill Whitey', would I be as correct in my 'free speech' as the young man who flew the CBF? No. I'm inciting a riot...just as he was. Now, suppose 'Whitey' is a known criminals last name, but you didn't know that. I explain to you about this person 'Whitey', his list of crimes, my stance on the death penalty, and his standing on death row. You get the drift now? If I come up to you wearing a t-shirt that says 'Kill Whitey', then it has a different meaning.

I can't give you an answer to this one, only because I could care less if you wore a shirt that says 'Kill Whitey'. Therefore, I wouldn't really be able to make a judgement on it. Of course, in a school setting, my school at least, any clothing that directly states something reguarding drugs, violence or sex is banned. So you wouldn't be able to wear it anyway.

 

[Gato_Solo]

True, but then can you explain why the idea of Freedom of Speech is now accepted as a general right as opposed to specifically speaking out against the government? You’re referring back to past interpretation instead of modern interpretation it would appear. The reason why it was created is of no matter, it is how it’s interpreted now that makes the difference. You stated that with regards to interpretation of the flag in the past compared to modern-day, and my previous argument about the Bill of Rights.

Good question. For the answer, we have to look at the time-line of the country...

Freedoms and Rights were created to give people power over the government. With these rights came certain responsibilities. As time progressed, peple became more concerned with their rights than their inherent responsibilities. Look around at todays society, and see how many people vote, for instance. It's a right. How many people are against gun ownership? That's a right, as well. How many people are for free speech...but only for their cause? Justice...liberty...peace...it's all good on paper, but the free exercise thereof is being tested. I can sit here and type all day, but I can't force you to see the responsibilities that come with your rights. I can say, however, that they're slowly being eroded due to influences both inside, and outside, the US. Fight for what you believe in, but temper your fight with the knowledge that your 'win', if it comes, will limit the rights of others to fight for what they believe.

 

[Rose]

He was in school. On school property, no? Freedom of speech or not, just about everyone knows the forseeable consequences for displaying what most people deem as a hate symbol. Regardless of whether it was intentioned for that or not.

The school has every right to ban students from having the flag on premises. Granted, reparations should have been made for his personal property being destroyed.

 

[Gato_Solo]

He was in school. On school property, no? Freedom of speech or not, just about everyone knows the forseeable consequences for displaying what most people deem as a hate symbol. The school has every right to ban students from having the flag on premises.

True enough, Rose, but that won't help her to see the why.

 

[FluerVanderloo]

True enough, Rose, but that won't help her to see the why.

Yes, maybe I never will see the why, I apoligize for my relentless stupidity and refusal to see your views. After all, you seem to know it all, no?

 

[Winky]

FluerVanderloo
I have to make an assumption regarding the location
(part of the country) down 'south' I presume?
Regardless of that:
"If the act was done by white kids on a Malcom X flag"

Certainly you know by now young one, that the only acts of racism
that are politically correct in this day and age are those that are directed against white people?!?

I see very little support for your position on this board among these PC folks. Heck one is even condoning violence against this guy.
"I think Kevin is lucky they didn't clean his clock."
"but if they would have just kicked his ass, I'm betting they'd be walking free right now too." Yes they would because it is PC.

You can burn the American Flag and have an easier time then you can show support for other things in this country..

So this kid is a senior so he will be out of that school real soon all the better I suppose. What is the ratio of Black to White in this school?

Funny thing that everyone always overlooks Blacks are called a minority because they comprise a mere 12% of the U.S. population.

Anywhere they are in the majority problems will arise the most liberal minded people are those who can afford to be, those in predominately white 'Hoods.

Oh and tell this Kid Kevin for me.
“Be all coolin’ your jets Bud”,
“yo ain’t gonna make no changes ‘round here.”
“Ya’ll jus gonna be stirrin’ up trouble”

 

[Gato_Solo]

Yes, maybe I never will see the why, I apoligize for my relentless stupidity and refusal to see your views. After all, you seem to know it all, no?

Now you're being insulting.

 

[FluerVanderloo]

Now you're being insulting.

Simply an observation...I meant no insult by it.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Simply an observation...I meant no insult by it.

I didn't mean me. I meant you. You're insulting yourself. Ignore Winky for now.

1. You've admitted that the CBF was adopted by the KKK for it's symbol, and that the KKK is, by no means, a group that you, personally, want to be associated with.
2. You agree that, because of the association with the KKK, the CBF has become a lightning rod, as it were, for racial strife and anxiety.
3. We both agree that the flag can mean something other than hate. What is so difficult about explaining what you, personally, get from the flag before you bring it out upon a public that has seen only negative images of that flag for at least as long as there have been cameras? That is, and will remain, my big question.


Now on to Winky...

Have you always taken the most extreme viewpoint, or is this just a ploy for some attention?

 

[FluerVanderloo]

What is so difficult about explaining what you, personally, get from the flag before you bring it out upon a public that has seen only negative images of that flag for at least as long as there have been cameras?

I disagree with the statement that the flag has had negative connotation since there have been cameras, but that's not the main point of your question.

I never said that the main view of the Confederate flag wasn't a negative one. I'm saying that just because most people think that doesn't mean there aren't those out there that don't see it the same way.

 

[Winky]

Now on to Winky...

Have you always taken the most extreme viewpoint, or is this just a ploy for some attention?

In many cases my viewpoints seem extreme, I tend to see issues in
black and White pun intended.


Hey the only other quote unquote symbol that was brought up here was the Nazi flag. Does anyone here really equate the Nazi flag with the Confederate flag?!? And it is being suggested that I'm being extreme?

Two things. First if you were to fly the Nazi flag you'd bring a degree of derision upon yourself but you'd expect not to be the victim of violence, right. Hah! Secondly.

Can anyone here come up with another 'symbol' that by merely displaying it,
would possibly make you the object of sanctioned violence?

Oh and single Cat to further furnish information to your query,
sure why not stir things up a bit? Pondering UFO’s or lamenting the beheading of a white American Jew by Arab Islamic terrorists became boring.

 

[Rose]

Yes, maybe I never will see the why, I apoligize for my relentless stupidity and refusal to see your views. After all, you seem to know it all, no?

Oh heaven's no. And I dont' mean to come off as I do. I'm simply stating my opinion on the matter.

Perhaps I should ask my lil' sis for her opinion, she seems to think along the lines of your thinking as best I can tell. She wanted a confederate flag on her pickup truck license plate when she first moved from Oklahoma to Tennessee her sophomore year. I'm thinking it's a good thing mom didn't let her.

 

[Sharky]

The Confederate flag has become a symbol of hatred, regardless of it's original heritage. If you don't believe me, Google the phrase "symbol of hatred" and there it is.

Anyone who displays the Confederate flag is asking for confrontation, like it or not.

Most people learn at an early age not to stick their hand into the fire if they don't want to get burned. Some never learn.

While we are on the topic of offensive flags, personally I find Winky's sig pic of the American flag snuggled up to the communist flag to be extremely offensive.

 

[FluerVanderloo]

Oh heaven's no. And I dont' mean to come off as I do. I'm simply stating my opinion on the matter.

Perhaps I should ask my lil' sis for her opinion, she seems to think along the lines of your thinking as best I can tell. She wanted a confederate flag on her pickup truck license plate when she first moved from Oklahoma to Tennessee her sophomore year. I'm thinking it's a good thing mom didn't let her.

It's alright, I wasn't trying to come off as rude. I live in Maryland, which was a border state. People around here, especially skirting Baltimore City, like me, have pretty strong views. This is a carry over from the war. Just like in the deep south, how some segregation does exist.

Anyway, I want to say it takes living in the south to understand, but techinically I don't live in the south. When I first got into the Civil War I felt I could relate more to the Confederacy, therefore I am a 'bigger fan' you could say, than that of the Union.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the flag if you're not weairng white robes while waving it. Just like it was stated before, 'Heritage, not Hate'. It's a historic thing, just like the Nazis and WWII, and what's going on with Iraq (I don't want to start that though, just an example). People always remember the bad, and not the good. Unfortunately that's the way it is, but you can't please everyone. No matter what you do, someone will be offended by it. Might as well do what you want and piss people off along the way.

 

[Gonz]

If you don't believe me, Google the phrase "symbol of hatred" and there it is.

I didn't want to get involved with this thread. However, I saw this & had to ask if it's like when my idiot brother said he saw it on TV so it must be true?

 

[Sharky]

I didn't want to get involved with this thread. However, I saw this & had to ask if it's like when my idiot brother said he saw it on TV so it must be true?

Why, yes - it's incontrovertible evidence, of course.

But that doesn't make me an idiot. I'm an idiot for other, more specific reasons.