'Toyota defense' might rescue jailed Minnesota man

spike

spike

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LINO LAKES, Minn. – Ever since his 1996 Toyota Camry shot up an interstate ramp, plowing into the back of an Oldsmobile in a horrific crash that killed three people, Koua Fong Lee insisted he had done everything he could to stop the car.

A jury didn't believe him, and a judge sentenced him to eight years in prison. But now, new revelations of safety problems with Toyotas have Lee pressing to get his case reopened and his freedom restored. Relatives of the victims — who condemned Lee at his sentencing three years ago — now believe he is innocent and are planning to sue Toyota. The prosecutor who sent Lee to prison said he thinks the case merits another look.

"I know 100 percent in my heart that I took my foot off the gas and that I was stepping on the brakes as hard as possible," Lee said in an interview Wednesday at the state prison in Lino Lakes. "When the brakes were looked at and we were told that nothing was wrong with the brakes, I was shocked."

Lee's accident is among a growing number of cases, some long resolved, that are getting new attention since Toyota admitted its problems with sudden acceleration were more extensive than originally believed. Numerous lawsuits involving Toyota accidents have been filed over the recent revelations, and attorneys expect the numbers will climb.

In testimony before Congress, company executive renewed their apologies for underestimating the safety problems but also acknowledged that they still may not have identified all the causes for the sudden acceleration.

The uncertainty could wind up helping Lee and others. Attorneys for both the 32-year-old St. Paul man as well as the victims' families say they're encouraged by the evidence that the problems went beyond models that originally were recalled.
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More of the article here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100225/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_fatal_crash
 
Not going to happen. The 96 Camry had a different braking system which saw no recall at all. If he'd been standing on the brakes, he would've left a long line of rubber all the way up the ramp.

Good try though.
 
I heard about this.

The uncertainty could wind up helping Lee and others. Attorneys for both the 32-year-old St. Paul man as well as the victims' families say they're encouraged by the evidence that the problems went beyond models that originally were recalled.

...

Lee's current attorney, Brent Schafer, said several '96 Camry owners whose cars were not in the recall have filed sudden-acceleration complaints with federal regulators.

Bob Hilliard, a Texas attorney, is preparing a lawsuit by the victims in the Lee crash. Hilliard said other federal complaints suggest a defect more widespread than recalled cruise controls — something with engine control modules that could extend to other Toyota makes and model years.
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My prediction: he's going to be released; the victims' families and Lee are going to sue Toyota and get some $$$$.
 
MrBishop said:
Not going to happen. The 96 Camry had a different braking system which saw no recall at all. If he'd been standing on the brakes, he would've left a long line of rubber all the way up the ramp.

Good try though.
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No.

If the car went to wide-open throttle and he stood on the brakes, the brakes would not do a whole lot because 1. the pads have to overcome the full power of the engine in addition to the inertia of the car, and 2. engine vacuum at WOT is almost nil, meaning that the power assist isn't any help, meaning you can push on the brake pedal with all your might and it's like you're hardly using the brakes at all. As a result, there would be no rubber left on the road at all.

Further, it's not the braking system that's been at fault anyway. It's the accelerator. Newer Toyota vehicles use a drive-by-wire system which in effect makes the gas pedal an "input device" which tells the computer how much to open the throttle, instead of the pedal pulling on a cable or a set of rods and springs like in older vehicles.

What might have happened in this case is a bug in the cruise control software that made it go into WOT without being shut off by the brake light switch coming on. Or, because 1996 Toyotas used mechanical throttles, there are moving parts that perhaps could have jammed.

In the early 1960s, brake light switches were on the brake lines and used brake fluid pressure to turn the brake lights on or off. But newer vehicles have the brake light switch connected to the pedal, so the brake lights would come on even if something prevents the brake system from working as it's supposed to. So the question to ask any witnesses to the crash is if the brake lights were on at the moment of impact.
 
The fact that he's bringing this up now, after the Toyota recalls, not during the trial, is pretty suspicious. Opportunist, anyone?

A '96 camry is probably a cable-driven throttle body. If that thing got jammed, it wouldn't unjam itself. Not to mention, I thought the failsafe mode for those was idle. If the cable snapped or something, it would just close the TB.

With DBW, especially if it is a software glitch, then the issue might not be repeatable if the car is turned off. But if the throttle cable got jammed enough to put the car WOT, it probably would stay jammed.

Attorneys for both the 32-year-old St. Paul man as well as the victims' families say they're encouraged by the evidence that the problems went beyond models that originally were recalled.
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There's evidence of problems with the DBW gas pedals in just about every application. However, a problem with the DBW gas pedals or the section of the software that interfaces with the DBW gas pedals could not affect a drive-by-cable TB at all.

If there wasn't evidence of a jammed throttle 3 years ago, there's not going to be evidence for it now, because the "new evidence" that's going to get him out of jail free is related only to newer Toyotas with DBW throttles, not older Toyotas with cable throttles.

Of course, most people are too stupid to understand that, so the jury in his appeal will probably let him go.
 
The guy has been sticking by his story ever since the accident happened. It's just that now, with the widespread recall and appearances that it could be beyond the previously-recalled models, the family is saying, "oh, wait, maybe he's actually right." What he's saying now is what he said then, but the prosecutor convinced the jury he hit the gas instead of the brakes.

Also, even with it being cable-driven, there's still software in the cruise control.
 
Inkara1 said:
The guy has been sticking by his story ever since the accident happened. It's just that now, with the widespread recall and appearances that it could be beyond the previously-recalled models, the family is saying, "oh, wait, maybe he's actually right." What he's saying now is what he said then, but the prosecutor convinced the jury he hit the gas instead of the brakes.

Also, even with it being cable-driven, there's still software in the cruise control.
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Are there any documented cruise control issues with those cars?

Accelerator issues on a 2010 model does not necessarily relate to a hypothetical cruise control issue on a 1996 model.
 
Altron said:
Are there any documented cruise control issues with those cars?

Accelerator issues on a 2010 model does not necessarily relate to a hypothetical cruise control issue on a 1996 model.
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Even the former prosecutor is backing the guy up.
 
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