UK's Blair cracks down on Islamist radicals

[MrBishop]

UK's Blair cracks down on Islamist radicals

Reuters - 18 minutes ago LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's Tony Blair unveiled sweeping anti-terrorism measures on Friday to silence or deport Islamist radicals even at the expense of human rights laws, alarming Muslim leaders and civil rights campaigners. Saying the landscape had changed since last month's London bombings, the prime minister announced plans to ban two Islamist groups and bring in new powers to expel or exclude foreign nationals who incite violence or glorify terrorism.

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[Gonz]

Oh man is he gonna be in trouble

 

[unclehobart]

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Thats the sound of freedom hitting the rubbish bin.

 

[MrBishop]

Well, he certainly ain't going to be making any friends.

Blair said he would also seek new powers to close down places of worship used to foment extremism and deport any foreigner who actively engaged with extremist bookshops or Web Sites.

Putting padlocks and eviction notices on places of worship is a huge step!
Deportations, I can see...but he's stirring up more ant-hills and he'll eventually run out of RAIDtm.

"Well Mohammaed al'Jarif Abdullah al'Kirin, you've been visiting www.al'jazira.com so...here's your plane ticket, here are your guards, enjoy the trip home. Don't worry, we'll sell all of your stuff (after rifling through it) and send you a cheque (minus taxes and airfare and salaries for the guards) to your new hovel. Write us when/if you get a mailing address. Have a nice day!"

 

[chcr]

Welcome to a world created by terrorism. I doubt that we're all that far behind. What other choices are there though?

 

[Gonz]

What other choices are there though?

There's the key question.

 

[MrBishop]

Welcome to a world created by terrorism. I doubt that we're all that far behind. What other choices are there though?

Sounds like "Living with Terrorism, 101" - The Wheat with the Chaff.

Our guest speakers, Aldous Huxley, Anthony Burgess and George Orwell

 

[chcr]

Sounds like "Living with Terrorism, 101" - The Wheat with the Chaff.

Our guest speakers, Aldous Huxley, Anthony Burgess and George Orwell

Yep. Easy to say it's wrong to react that way until it starts happening in your back yard. I don't like it, but I understand where it comes from. It might even work, although I fear it will be very hard to regain those freedoms once they're gone.

 

[The Other One]

Let no-one be in any doubt -- the rules of the game are changing.

"We are angry. We are angry about extremism and about what they are doing to our country, angry about their abuse of our good nature," Blair said. "We welcome people here who share our values and our way of life. But don't meddle in extremism because if you meddle in it ... you are going back out again."

Mr. Blair is saying "Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."

Those lucky Brits---they don't have to deal with the treasonous ACLU trying to sabatoge any action used to prevent future attacks on the country.

 

[The Other One]

Yep. Easy to say it's wrong to react that way until it starts happening in your back yard.

Canadians don't have anything to worry about from their Muslim brethren.

After all, they already are in their back yard; Canada has welcomed them with open arms and open minds, and the Islamics haven't bit the hand that has appeased them yet. Canadians don't believe a quote like this from the Kuran applies to themselves:

[7:4] Many a community we annihilated; they incurred our retribution while they were asleep, or wide awake.

 

[The Other One]

Well, he certainly ain't going to be making any friends.

Is it more important to protect your country or make friends?

"Well Mohammaed al'Jarif Abdullah al'Kirin, you've been visiting www.al'jazira.com so........

I got the impression when Mr. Blair said he'd "deport any foreigner who actively engaged with extremist bookshops or Web Sites" that the foreigner was going a little further than simply clicking on a website, perhaps actually OWNING the bookstore or OPERATING the website that incited hate towards non-Muslims. Think that's a possibility??

 

[Lopan]

It's not that much of an extreme move. Britain was too accomodating in the first place. This is just a normalisation process.

 

[chcr]

Mr. Blair is saying "Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."

Well, that's how you see it. It's not what he's saying though.

[7:4] Many a community we annihilated; they incurred our retribution while they were asleep, or wide awake.

It's really one of my pet peeves to have people quote something out of context to twist the meaning to fit their point of view (not that thousands of muslims don't read it that way too, mind). If you read the entire passage, it refers to other muslims who are abusing or otherwise denigrating the faith. Look, like all religious texts, it's ambiguous as hell anyway.

Is it more important to protect your country or make friends?

I got the impression when Mr. Blair said he'd "deport any foreigner who actively engaged with extremist bookshops or Web Sites" that the foreigner was going a little further than simply clicking on a website, perhaps actually OWNING the bookstore or OPERATING the website that incited hate towards non-Muslims. Think that's a possibility??

See, you say something like this, which is perfectly sensible and shows an understanding of the situation as it exists, then you post the other, ultra-right wing rhetoric which anyone with half a brain can see is completely lost in "right" field and shows that you have no understanding whatsoever of the international politics involved. I don't know why I bother, you'll completely misinterpret this post to say I'm on the terrorists side anyway...

 

[The Other One]

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page8040.asp

The Prime Minister has outlined new security measures at his monthly media briefing.

Mr Blair told journalists that the measures were either being taken now, immediately, or under urgent examination.

He said the Government was launching a short one-month consultation on new grounds for excluding and deporting people from the United Kingdom. They would include fostering hatred, advocating violence to further a person's beliefs or justifying or validating such violence.

"What I'm trying to do here is, and this will be followed up with the action in the next few weeks as I think you will see, is to send a clear signal out that the rules of the game have changed. We welcome people here who are peaceful and law abiding. People who want to be British citizens should share our values and our way of life. But if you come to our country from abroad, don't meddle in extremism. If you meddle in it or engage in it, then you're going to go back out again...

".........But I'm sorry, people can't come here and abuse our good nature and our tolerance. They can't come here and start inciting our young people in our communities to take up violence against British people here, and if they do that, they're going to go back. I'm sorry, there's no point in us kidding ourselves about the nature of this problem. It's there, it's in our communities and we've got to root it out....

".......they come here and they play by our rules and our way of life. If they don't then they are going to have to go because they are threatening people in our country and that's not right either. The way to protect our way of life is to respond very clearly to that clear view of the British people, that yes we have responded to the 7th July attacks by saying that we want to keep our country together, and to respect all out communities, including the Muslim community, but we also want to deal with the extremists in our ranks because that is a way of protecting our way of life and that is honestly the only way you can deal with this."

If he's NOT saying "Be on my side, I'll be on your side, baby." what IS he saying? He's saying "You come to this country, you play by our rules, you respect the culture and traditions of OUR country, don't incite hatred of non-Muslims, or you will suffer the consequences." Mr. Blair has drawn the line that says "You're with us or against us."

You must admit: Tony Blair has got it right.

When we install a plan like that in the U.S. the liberal's heads will explode.

 

[Gonz]

...then you post the other, ultra-right wing rhetoric which anyone with half a brain can see is completely lost in "right" field

If a tree falls in the forest & has no witness, does it make a noise? Just because you disagree doesn't make it wrong.

Mr. Blair is saying "Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."

 

[chcr]

If he's NOT saying "Be on my side, I'll be on your side, baby." what IS he saying?. He's saying "You come to this country, you play by our rules, you respect the culture and traditions of OUR country, don't incite hatred of non-Muslims, or you will suffer the consequences."

Sorry, but in the English I'm speaking, that (and that is substantially what he is saying) is not the same thing as this:

Mr. Blair has drawn the line that says "You're with us or against us.".

Don't feel too badly though, a lot of self-proclaimed conservatives probably feel like that's just what it says regardless of what it actually says. You clearly do understand it, you just feel like you have to add more to it to try to make a point that doesn't really apply (IMO, of course).

You must admit: Tony Blair has got it right.

When we install a plan like that in the U.S. the liberal's heads will explode.

Yes, Tony is doing just what I felt we should have done all along. The people who believe that the American middle-eastern muslim community at large doesn't know who the likely troublemakers will be (and no, I don't believe as you do that they all are) are self-deluded fools.


By the way, can I get the ticket concession to the "liberals heads exploding" thing? I've got a feeling it'll be like a license to print money.

 

[freako104]

Yes, Tony is doing just what I felt we should have done all along. The people who believe that the American middle-eastern muslim community at large doesn't know who the likely troublemakers will be (and no, I don't believe as you do that they all are) are self-deluded fools.

Think it will happen here though? It should have been done but likely it wasnt going to happen and it wont be happening anytime soon

By the way, can I get the ticket concession to the "liberals heads exploding" thing? I've got a feeling it'll be like a license to print money

I have an extra but snacks are on you

 

[Lopan]

Here's why you just can't talk to these people.

A Sunday Times reporter spent two months as a recruit inside the Saviour Sect to reveal for the first time how the extremist group promotes hatred of “non-believers” and encourages its followers to commit acts of violence including suicide bombings

Source

We shouldn't seek to appease or try to talk to these people. They don't understand personal freedom or democracy. The more we do that the more they think we are weak.

 

[chcr]

Think it will happen here though?

Nope.

We shouldn't seek to appease or try to talk to these people. They don't understand personal freedom or democracy. The more we do that the more they think we are weak.

Are you referring to extremists or muslims in general? I realize that some people think there is no difference.

 

[Lopan]

The extremists. I was talking about the people in the editorial.